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  1. TopTop #61
    CSummer's Avatar
    CSummer
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    First question: What should be the sustainable level of human population on Earth?

    That depends totally on the socioeconomic systems by which people live and on the consciousness of the people. As an example, people living in a third world country through subsistence farming or otherwise struggling to survive have a very small ecological "footprint." If their way of life is locally sustainable (i.e., not depleting the local resources) and they're conscious of and committed to not exceeding the carrying capacity of those resources, their population would only be limited by the availability of local resources and their ability to use them to greatest advantage.

    But let's say a family from Mexico or another Central American country is able to migrate to the US and views the American way of life - with its large houses and SUVs - as a desirable way of life worth striving for, their presence on the earth almost immediately becomes non-sustainable. At least this is true once they're able to afford this over-consuming way of life.

    So we have two modes of living - of acting to meet our needs - that stand in stark contrast to each other. One I call the "shopping mentality;" the other could be called living consciously. Shopping mentality is looking outside one's self for what one needs and is not based on a true awareness of what our true needs are or what provides true satisfaction, contentment, fulfillment, etc. It is living by looking at the existing systems and seeing how we can fit into or take advantage of those systems to get what they have to offer. It is also coming from fear, scarcity and powerlessness, viewing the products of those systems as a way of distancing ourselves from what we fear: poverty and helplessness.

    Conscious living starts with our real needs, includes our real feelings, and incorporates an inclusive awareness of our fellow humans (or community, if such exists) and the natural world. We are aware of ourselves as individuals and as integral parts of our physical and social contexts or environments. It is a way of life that becomes much more feasible within a community of mutual support where we're able to create with others a way of living that fits who we are and truly meets our needs. This is quite possible, as we all have essentially the same real needs manifesting in many different ways.

    Question 2: On what grounds would you justify your answer?

    This is what I've come to as a result of many years seeking to understand why we and the society are as we are, what kind of human society we could create and how to get from here to there. Certainly the earth has a finite carrying capacity, but we cannot make any real assessment of that capacity based on the present socioeconomic system that exists much like a cancerous malignancy devouring its host. So we can only imagine what life on earth might be like if human society were designed and built in a sane way. The picture becomes vastly different if we're seeking efficient, harmonious ways to meet real human needs rather than working to sustain a monstrosity that exists primarily for the benefit of a rich and powerful ruling class.

    CSummer

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by hearthstone: View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...on-in-pictures

    From EANTH-L online archives - https://listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?...me%40gmail.com

    SURVEY: What should be the sustainable level of human population on Earth? On what grounds would you justify your answer?

    Thanks, Hearthstone.
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  3. TopTop #62
    hearthstone's Avatar
    hearthstone
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    From the little I've seen of those two, I think those would be a variation of forms of government that have not worked satisfactorily so far, transposed to global level.
    Thanks, Hearthstone.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by carpet crawler: View Post
    No group? You mean something like this?
    https://www.dwfed.org/
    or perhaps
    https://www.wfm-igp.org/
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  4. TopTop #63
    hearthstone's Avatar
    hearthstone
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    Again--it is forgotten in our considerations about the optimal human population level that we not only share the resource of the area available for living with other humans only, but also with all other species.

    A human population size should be such that would not inconvenience all other species need for their own space for living! So that there is no need for other species to die out, only to accommodate our needs!

    Our own wisdom is still not great enough to see to what extends we need all other species for our own life!

    Thanks, Hearthstone.
    Last edited by thedaughter; 04-15-2015 at 11:37 AM.
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  6. TopTop #64
    rekarp's Avatar
    rekarp
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    Your video proof is from Dr. Steven W. Mosher, pro-life Catholic, expelled from Stanford for academic fraud.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by arthunter: View Post
    ...Here's a good one ... here's the description ...

    Dr. Steven W. Mosher, President of the Population Research Institute, has appeared numerous times before Congress as an expert in world population, China, and human rights abuses. He has also made TV appearances on Good Morning America, 60 Minutes, The Today Show, 20/20, FOX and CNN news, as well as being a regular guest on talk radio shows across the nation.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWUg0kbdTGk
    Last edited by Barry; 04-16-2015 at 01:08 PM.
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  8. TopTop #65
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    Thanks for mentioning this ...

    Without getting into the whole abortion issue, which could completely take over this thread, this is the story of Dr. Steven W. Mosher ... as you'll see it's complicated and his expulsion from Stanford was not without possible political motivations ...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_W._Mosher

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by rekarp: View Post
    Your video proof is from Dr. Steven W. Mosher, pro-life Catholic, expelled from Stanford for academic fraud.
    Last edited by Barry; 04-16-2015 at 01:09 PM.
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  9. TopTop #66
    rekarp's Avatar
    rekarp
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    This argument is utter nonsense, as not all land is habitable. You can't live on a river, lake, cliff, steep mountain, desert, or many other vast swaths of inhospitable land. You have to have water, septic, access to food, electricity, etc. The city of Sau Paulo Brazil (16 million people) is running out of water. According to this argument they are find because there is space for everyone. Geez!

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by arthunter: View Post
    The current world population would fit in the country of Australia, with each person having a quarter of an acre of land, with land left over … ( fact – do the math ) … if this doesn't soothe your over population fears then please do a search using the words “global population decline“, …. because, yes, birth rates are declining ..... ( more verifiable facts ) ....… and, because of this, world population numbers are expected to decline as well …

    I posted this information earlier in this thread and even talked about the financial implications of this reality, as cited by Forbes magazine, who is very concerned about all of this and it's impact on our economy, but it's been completely ignored …

    I sincerely believe that the current hysteria is to promote Agenda 21, which has now been banned in nine states to protect property rights … ( link upon request ) … this is where our attention should be focused ...
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  11. TopTop #67
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by rekarp: View Post
    This argument is utter nonsense, as not all land is habitable. You can't live on a river, lake, cliff, steep mountain, desert, or many other vast swaths of inhospitable land
    maybe we need to go all the way to a Dyson sphere, if we're talking in abstractions anyway....
    Last edited by Barry; 04-16-2015 at 01:11 PM.
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  13. TopTop #68
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    Yes, you are right but this study is only about the actual space needed if everyone got a quarter acre ... that space could be anywhere ... it's meant to illustrate what proportion of the earth's surface is actually in use by our current population ... and yes, 16 million people in one location is extreme and bound to cause problems ... the question that comes to my mind is, why are all of these people in this one location? ... I doubt that they all have a quarter acre ...

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by rekarp: View Post
    This argument is utter nonsense, as not all land is habitable. You can't live on a river, lake, cliff, steep mountain, desert, or many other vast swaths of inhospitable land. You have to have water, septic, access to food, electricity, etc. The city of Sau Paulo Brazil (16 million people) is running out of water. According to this argument they are find because there is space for everyone. Geez!
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  14. TopTop #69
    phredo's Avatar
    phredo
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    I think it's good to know the opinions and therefore the possible biases of the people who made those videos (Mosher, the animation), but I don't think it is a sufficient reason to reject them. And I agree that the notion that they presented, that everyone on earth could fit into a small area, is rather silly and does not make any real point, but I don't think it advances the discussion too much to keep whipping it to death. After a while it becomes a distraction from other flaws of the films.

    One of the main concepts of the animation (I didn't watch the other video) is that earlier times, when human population was lower, was only privation and suffering and that growing population has coincided with better and better living, more culture, stuff, food, etc., and that even more population than present will result in more culture, stuff, etc. I believe that is an inaccurate picture that is heavily biased to favor modernity and the idea that humanity has been on a straight forward march towards "progress". On the other hand, there is much evidence that early humans worked less and enjoyed life more than later ones, that hunter gatherers had better health, bone structure, teeth, and a lot more freedom and leisure time than later agriculturalists, many of whom were little more than slaves. And you can carry it on into the later stages of development, comparing feudal to early capitalist life, pre-mechanized societies to industrial ones, 1950 culture to 2015 culture, often finding many aspects of earlier times that compare favorably to later times. If that's true or even debatable, it invalidates the main premiss of that animation.

    The above is just a starting point. Perhaps others can discuss the films and give more reasons why they are in error, if you think they are.
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  15. TopTop #70
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    good points, as usual, phredo ...

    this is a multi-faceted issue ... the videos that I posted cover some of the considerations like mathematical calculations of physical space, but there is so much more to this issue ... it's a meaty issue ... Mosher was kicked out of Stanford for exposing forced abortions in China, so the implications are very serious ...

    yes, when we consider lifestyle, which ultimately affects consumption, it gets even more complex because lifestyle can also affect where one lives ... and where one lives can affect the distribution of resources ...

    several people have cited the overcrowded cities as evidence of over-population ... but in every country, outside of the cities, one will find wide open space that's sparsely populated .. if you drive across America you might rethink the concept of overpopulation ... most of our land is empty ... so why are so many in the cities? ... is it particular features like rivers, and climate? ... or is it because of corporate growth creating jobs there? ... all people really need to survive is water, shelter and reasonably fertile land, and as you pointed out, people of the past might have enjoyed their lives more just doing what came naturally ... without shopping in malls, or cell phones, or plastics, or huge TVs ... so what happened and how do we fix this? ... and is it population that's the problem or lifestyles in the modern world?

    I've been invited to participate in a land co-op in Australia ... i can't pull it off right now but it's intriguing ... these folks are producing all of their own food and living free up in the hills ... most of them survive in this way without having to work in a city ... and they are thriving ... this is a movement that is happening around the world in most countries ... look up ubuntu ...

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by phredo: View Post
    I think it's good to know the opinions and therefore the possible biases of the people who made those videos (Mosher, the animation), but ...
    Last edited by Barry; 04-16-2015 at 01:12 PM.
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  16. TopTop #71
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    .
    17 Powerful Images Showing The Devastating Effects Of Overpopulation

    It’s no secret that we are exploiting our planet and running out of resources at the speed of light, but many people refuse to take notice. These unbelievable photos of environmental damage, collected into a book by environmental awareness platform Global Population Speak Out, show the harsh realities of the ecological and social tragedies that Earth is suffering. Its title: “Overdevelopment, Overpopulation, Overshoot.

    ”This book has plenty of powerful images illustrating the problems generated by overpopulation and consumption, together with quotes from famous writers, scientists and ecologists to help understand and raise awareness about the destruction of natural environments.

    Global Population Speak Out provides a link for everyone to have a look at the book online for free, but if you want it in your bookshelf, you can also find it on
    Amazon.More info: populationspeakout.org | Amazon (h/t: boredpanda.es)
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  18. TopTop #72
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    Edward,

    With all due respect, publishing photos of the most populated places on earth really doesn't explain the true situation that we are in ... there are facts ...

    I have published these facts about falling birth rates a couple of times and this information has been completely ignored ... here is yet another article from Time magazine entitled "Overcrowding? Nah - the population may actually be declining" ... there are many other articles, full of facts, which point to the same reality ...

    https://newsfeed.time.com/2013/01/11...-be-declining/

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza: View Post
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  20. TopTop #73
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    As I mentioned before, economists around the world are discussing the economic consequences of population decline ...

    https://www.economist.com/node/5358255
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  21. TopTop #74
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    Rosanne,

    As you often do, you are again misrepresenting the facts. To clear things up a bit:

    1. There is population decline in some regions around the world, such as Europe.
    2. However, the overall population for the entire world is steadily INCREASING, not declining as you assert.

    Try to answer the following question, please. And try to be honest about your reply:

    Are you secretly afraid that third world populations and Muslims (or non-Christians and non-Whites) are going to greatly increase their population??? And that Christian, European, and American populations will find themselves as a small minority?

    Because if that is the case, I have very bad news for you: you are absolutely correct. Within a few decades time, European populations, and countries with populations of European descent, such as the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc, will be GREATLY outnumbered!

    So if that is your secret fear, then yes, you can start sweating up a storm as of yesterday. But I'm not worried and neither are most of the people on this list. You are not alone in your fear mongering; there are millions of Americans who harbor your exact same fear.

    Here is a song written just for you. It is a famous one; you might actually recognize it:




    Quote Posted in reply to the post by arthunter: View Post
    As I mentioned before, economists around the world are discussing the economic consequences of population decline ...

    https://www.economist.com/node/5358255
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  23. TopTop #75
    kpage9's Avatar
    kpage9
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    Rosanne keeps this falsehood going: "Mosher was kicked out of Stanford for exposing forced abortions in China", without checking into the facts.

    from the new york times letters:


    To the Editor:
    Steven W. Mosher was not expelled from the department of anthropology at Stanford University, as Bryan Johnson says in his review of Mr. Mosher's ''Journey to the Forbidden China'' (In Short, Aug. 4), because ''revelations . . . in Mr. Mosher's first book, 'Broken Earth' . . . drew tough demands from Peking that Stanford deal with him 'severely.' '' Mr. Mosher was expelled on Feb. 24, 1983, well before publication of ''Broken Earth,'' and the investigation of his behavior while doing his student fieldwork was initiated more than one and a half years before, on Oct. 1, 1981.
    CLIFFORD R. BARNETT
    Professor of Anthropology, Stanford University Stanford, Calif.
    Last edited by Barry; 04-17-2015 at 01:50 PM.
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  25. TopTop #76
    kpage9's Avatar
    kpage9
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    This is a terrific article and you're right--it DOES seem to be happening, and lots of people are talking about it. But I think this quote from it directly expresses the writer's attitude:

    "People love to worry—maybe it's a symptom of ageing populations—but the gloom surrounding population declines misses the main point. The new demographics that are causing populations to age and to shrink are something to celebrate. Humanity was once caught in the trap of high fertility and high mortality. Now it has escaped into the freedom of low fertility and low mortality. Women's control over the number of children they have is an unqualified good—as is the average person's enjoyment, in rich countries, of ten more years of life than they had in 1960. Politicians may fear the decline of their nations' economic prowess, but people should celebrate the new demographics as heralding a golden age."

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by arthunter: View Post
    As I mentioned before, economists around the world are discussing the economic consequences of population decline ...

    https://www.economist.com/node/5358255
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  27. TopTop #77
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    Strange response, Edward ...

    No, I do not share the fears that you mention ...

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza: View Post
    ...Are you secretly afraid that third world populations and Muslims (or non-Christians and non-Whites) are going to greatly increase their population??? And that Christian, European, and American populations will find themselves as a small minority? Because if that is the case, I have very bad news for you: you are absolutely correct....
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  29. TopTop #78
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    You should write to Wikipedia about this because that's where I got my information ... it seemed plausible to me because those who expose crimes of the state are always attacked and discredited ... I think most people are waking up to this, as it's really very obvious ...

    anyway, I find it interesting that you focus on Steven Mosher when the facts about declining birth rates are shared by many mainstream publications ... this is good news for those of you worried about overpopulation ...

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by kpage9: View Post

    Rosanne keeps this falsehood going: ...
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  31. TopTop #79
    Shandi's Avatar
    Shandi
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    Rosanne,
    Your response reflects a consciousness that doesn't include any unkindness or negativity. I respect that as an example of something I wish we could all strive for
    ....a simple response, devoid of a put down.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by arthunter: View Post
    Strange response, Edward ... No, I do not share the fears that you mention ...
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  33. TopTop #80
    phredo's Avatar
    phredo
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by arthunter: View Post
    ... this is good news for those of you worried about overpopulation ...
    I do think it's good news, and, by the way, I agree that that Mendoza response was puzzling, to say the least.

    But what do you think about those 17 pictures? It's not really the case, you know, that they all were taken of areas where there is especially high population, although several were. In fact, many of the photos showed degradation of nature in the service of the wealthy parts of the world. For example, the harvest of trees that led to the clear-cut forest probably went mostly to benefit first world home construction, and the petroleum extraction that produced the oil well pollution in that photo went mostly to benefit first world automobiles. What this suggests to me is that, while I'm glad to see some indication that first world populations may be heading towards decline, it's not enough or quick enough to avoid massive degradation of environment.

    In a very real way, all the resources of the planet are being brought into the service of feeding and in other ways supporting humans. Calculations have been made of the exact percentages over the years of the amount of all the living material on earth that goes to support humans and it's become rather large in recent decades. When you read of jellyfish dying off or bats falling out the sky in massive die-offs or moose becoming extinct in Canada (examples from a Naomi Klein speech I listened to recently), you can connect it directly to human activity. How much of the earth's life forms should be used as "resources" for humanity? Are the birds and the bees and everything else just put here for our use, as the Bible states, or are we no more than one part of the whole?

    You've suggested several times that you see large tracts of land that seem undisturbed by humans, which could presumably be made use of by the more humans to come, but I don't think it's an accurate view of the situation. Agribusiness would be glad to build more farms to grow more corn and soy on if they could find the water, fertilizer and other resources to do it, but in fact suitable land is in short supply, as we can see by the fact that there is competition of resources for growing corn for food or corn for fuel alcohol. You can look at maps of the Amazon basin that show the quite dramatic shrinking of the forests their as land is used for cattle and soy. In Africa, Saudi and Chinese interests (besides whatever Bill Gates and his cohorts are doing there) are buying up or leasing large amounts of land for large scale farming, depriving local subsistence farmers from land they've used for millenia, and the local people in turn end up degrading the environment in the search for new ways to support themselves.

    It's hard to know just where to put the "blame" for all this, and surely it's not just the fault of population growth. For example, if everyone were to become vegan, there would be lots more food available and that food would require far less water to grow. And we can think of many other changes we could make, especially ones having to do with using a whole lot less oil, that would make things better. You can look at that photo of plastic junk in the ocean surf and say it's an example of first world exploitation of third world peoples, because that junk is probably 100% petroleum products that rich manufacturers have foisted on to third world former agriculturalists who are today big city slum dwellers flushing their trash through inadequate waste disposal systems which formerly could take care of organic waste but are overburdened by plastic junk. I mean, I do say that that's the case, but I also think over population plays a big part in all this, because there wouldn't be as much plastic junk, the Amazon wouldn't be disappearing nearly so quickly, the third world slums wouldn't be such a dominant features of those countries, and American farmland wouldn't be turning into dessert nearly so quickly if there weren't just so gosh-darned many of us!
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  35. TopTop #81
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    Yes, there are big problems on earth ... honestly, I think that there are many reasons for this ... yes, fewer people would mean that all of it is reduced, but people are already reducing their numbers, so do we really need to submit to more rules and regulations to bring this about?

    I think that most of the problems on earth are due to big business ... there has been a constant effort on this planet to provoke consumerism for the sake of profits ... what we need has been replaced by what we want ... advertising is a form of psychological manipulation that states that you can't be happy without this ... and that ... and that ...

    I'm as guilty as anyone else ... I used to go shopping for the entertainment value of it ... that's all changed now ... I still look for art ( hence the name "arthunter" ) but very little else interests me ... I had a house fire awhile back and a lot of my stuff burnt up ... I had to itemize it for insurance purposes and I couldn't remember what it was that I had lost ... that's how dam important it was ... and I didn't miss any of it ... I now wish to get down to one car load of stuff like when I was younger, because flexibility and simplicity have become more important then accumulation ...

    So yes, I take it back to big business or corporations convincing the world that we needed all of these diversions in the first place ... and then proceeding to brutally strip the planet of it's resources to provide it ...

    But hold on because things are changing .....

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by phredo: View Post
    ...It's hard to know just where to put the "blame" for all this, and surely it's not just the fault of population growth....
    Last edited by thedaughter; 04-18-2015 at 12:23 PM.
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  37. TopTop #82
    CSummer's Avatar
    CSummer
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    If we look for someone or something to blame - especially outside ourselves - we accomplish nothing. This is especially true of large corporate and governmental organizations: changing them in any fundamental way in the near term is not really within our power. They are designed to resist change coming from outside their own power structures.

    Systems (which includes corporations and governments) tend to do what they're designed to do. What is a for-profit corporation designed to do? They're designed to produce and sell products in a profitable way - as they continually grow - so as to provide their investors with a return on their investment. This is their primary function and mandate. They have two main concerns: selling more and doing it for less cost (hence more profit). This purpose or mission often runs counter to meeting human needs or protecting the natural environment. Indeed, harming humans and destroying the environment may make more "business sense" than behaving as responsible global citizens. Given this design function or purpose, there is no reason to expect corporations to be concerned about real human needs or the health of ecosystems.

    It makes little sense to blame, berate or try to change these large systems while at the same time supporting them through our participation. They are not the real core of the problem but rather a symptom. The real, underlying problem is the immature and irresponsible way we live, which is much like children who give our responsiblity and power to these parental institutions ("daddy-mommy" government and corporations).

    We, like our parents and ancestors, have bought into this way of life, and it's difficult to imagine another way - unless we've seen how indigenous people live without participating in the dominant systems. Part of the problem is that after living within these systems, we have come to believe we need all the technological products they produce, even though many of them do not meet any real human needs. It's also difficult to imagine another way of living because we've lost the skills of mutual support and cooperation that are essential for a healthy, peaceful society.

    The design function, purpose or mission of a society that works well for humans and the natural world must offer a radical alternative to that of the present dominant order; i.e., it must be completely "outside the box" of what we know. If we're attached to the way of life we've known or the systems that support it, we're not likely to be able to bring about real change.

    And this is where I believe creating the kind of society and world we want (which, by the way, is within our power) must begin: from knowing the true purpose of the socio-economic systems we want to create. Without a clear sense of that purpose or design function, we're likely to end up with something other than what we need or want.

    If you'd like to make a guess as to what that purpose might be, here's a hint: Imagine you want to grow some of your own food, and you want it to be truly healthy, nutritious and appealing. To do this, you need to design and build a garden of some sort - one in which each plant can thrive and realize its highest potential. What would be the design function or purpose of this garden? What does it take for cultivated plants (or people) to do really well?

    CSummer

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by arthunter: View Post
    Yes, there are big problems on earth ... honestly, I think that there are many reasons for this ...
    Last edited by thedaughter; 04-18-2015 at 12:24 PM.
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  39. TopTop #83
    arthunter's Avatar
    arthunter
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    According to my research, the people are making incredible progress towards a healthy planet. They are joining intentional communities where resources are shared, they are investing in tiny houses, they are growing their own food, and they are fighting against polluting substances that can destroy the eco system.


    A teenager has developed a way to remove plastics from our oceans, salt water cars are being discussed in Europe, solar power is growing globally, a man has developed a mushroom which will replace the need for pesticides, communities are planting food parks instead of ornamental parks,... they are fighting GMOs, pesiticides, unnecessary wars that deplete our resources, geoengineering, health care waste, bloated military budgets, and everything else that is unhealthy to our planet …

    The response from corporations and their supporting governments has been predictable …perhaps in order to protect profits and maintain control they are outlawing gardens, buying up water rights, arresting people for collecting rainwater on their own properties, buying up seed supplies, declaring that self sustaining communities are extreme and dangerous … and the list goes on …

    This is what we are up against ...

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by CSummer: View Post
    If we look for someone or something to blame - especially outside ourselves - we accomplish nothing....
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  40. Gratitude expressed by 2 members:

  41. TopTop #84
    Valley Oak's Avatar
    Valley Oak
     

    Re: Over population, over consumption - in pictures

    This thread seems to be ignoring this link here:

    U.S. Whites will be minority by 2024
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  42. TopTop #85
    hearthstone's Avatar
    hearthstone
     

    Some advantages of a minimal human zero growth population level.

    With the oncoming environmental changes (raising sea level, shortage of water and other resources, shortage of space to live) a small population level humanity could find it easier to move to for life optimal places as required by the changing conditions.

    There would be minimal impact of humanity's actions on other humans, on other species, and on the Earth processes. (=less problems to deal with.)

    Human intragroup communications would be based on personal (everybody knows everybody in the group--I've done some research into this in the past--it would be, roughly, in the 500 people level region) level. There would be no need for any technological media. Any possible leaders could be directly evaluated "on the spot" seeing how well their leadership contributes to the welfare of the group.
    Thanks, Hearthstone.
    Last edited by thedaughter; 04-20-2015 at 01:49 PM.
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