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  1. TopTop #1
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    There is new large winery being proposed for 5150 Sebastopol Rd (Hwy 12) just east of Llano Road. The owner is Joseph Wagner of the WagnerFamilyofWine that founded the Caymus Vineyards of Napa 40 years ago.

    It calls for a maximum production capacity of 500,000 cases of wine and 250,000 cases of distilled spirits . That would make it about the 15th largest winery in the county (see sonoma county winery approvals by capacity here)

    The project includes over 85,000 square feet of buildings and 87 parking spaces. They are asking for 58 promotional events a year, including 6 with 300 person maximum and 4 with 600 person maximum that include outdoor amplified music.

    Note that the entrance to the winery crosses the Joe Rodota multi-use trail. There is existing driveway that crosses the trail, but this project will make much heavier use of it.

    The Sebastopol City Council will review their application at their Feb 3rd meeting and send their comments to the county the next day. If you have any comments or concerns be sure to attend the meeting and/or send your comments to the council. Of course, as always, I invite you to post your comments here as well. I'm sure at least a few the council members will be monitoring this discussion.

    Here are the email addresses for the council:

    [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]







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  2. TopTop #2
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
    Supporting Member

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    Do we need another winery? NO. The widened bridge on Highway 12 coming into Sebastopol is going to do enough damage to the Laguna. The environmental consequences of such a huge winery would be tremendous, as would its impact on traffic.

    I have much more confidence in the Sebastopol City Council than in the Sonoma County Board of Supervisors to challenge this application. Attending the Feb. 3 meeting, which would be reported in the news would be important to get the word out that there would be significant challenge of this Laguna-threatening winery.
    Shepherd

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    There is new large winery being proposed for 5150 Sebastopol Rd (Hwy 12) just east of Llano Road. ...

    The Sebastopol City Council will review their application at their Feb 3rd meeting and send their comments to the county the next day. If you have any comments or concerns be sure to attend the meeting and/or send your comments to the council. Of course, as always, I invite you to post your comments here as well. I'm sure at least a few the council members will be monitoring this discussion. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 01-29-2015 at 02:35 PM.
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  3. TopTop #3
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    Quote Shepherd wrote: View Post
    Do we need another winery?
    I don't see what "need" has to do with it. I do a lot of things the world doesn't need, and it's usually nobody's business.

    If the goal is to return that part of the laguna to its natural state, then even things we need shouldn't be allowed there.
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  4. TopTop #4
    AllorrahBe's Avatar
    AllorrahBe
     

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!Th

    Shepherd, I don't know what we would do without your quick response to new considerations. This project sounds much like the WalMart expansion in RP. It looks to dwarf ANYTHING in town. What concessions would they need to make in order to get approval? I believe you are correct and we should show up to voice our early opinions about this threat to the Laguna and our way of life. Thanks for BEing a good neighbor!
    Rev. BE

    Quote Shepherd wrote: View Post
    Do we need another winery? NO. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 01-30-2015 at 03:06 PM.
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  6. TopTop #5
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
    Supporting Member

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!Th

    Following is more information about the proposed winery on Highway 12, from Rue Furch, former member of the Sonoma County Planning Commission. Comments need to be into the County at the address below by Feb. 4.

    From: Rue Furch:

    This is a request for a Use Permit and an Administrative Design Review for a new winery and distillery with an annual maximum production capacity of 500,000 cases of wine and 250,000 gallons of distilled spirits.


    The project includes 57,000 sq ft of winery production area, 19,000 sq ft of distillery production area, 3,800 sq ft of administration area, and 6,200 sq ft of hospitality areas, with an outdoor tank farm, a covered crush pad area, fruit receiving area, and truck scale with 400 sq ft scale house, and public tasting and tours 7 days a week from 10 am to 5 pm with retail sales of wine and distilled spirits; and 58 agricultural promotional events per year (48 with 100 guests, 6 with 300 guests, and 4 with 600 guests) and participation in 4 industry wide events on 67.84 acres. The parcel is not under a Land Conservation Act contract.

    The proposal is located at 5150 Sebastopol Road, Santa Rosa. The address is a little confusing, because this location is west of Sebastopol Road in Santa Rosa south of Hwy 12. The site was the former home and dairy of the Medeiros family, and subsequent uses.

    Please respond to project planner, Traci Tesconi at [email protected] by February 4, 2015.

    Feel free to forward this to anyone you think may be interested.

    Have a great day, and thanks for noticing. This is truly getting out of hand.
    Rue
    Last edited by Barry; 01-30-2015 at 01:03 PM.
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  7. TopTop #6
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!Th

    Quote Shepherd wrote: View Post
    The project includes 57,000 sq ft of winery production area, 19,000 sq ft of distillery production area, 3,800 sq ft of administration area, and 6,200 sq ft of hospitality areas, with an outdoor tank farm, a covered crush pad area, fruit receiving area, and truck scale with 400 sq ft scale house, and public tasting and tours 7 days a week from 10 am to 5 pm with retail sales of wine and distilled spirits; and 58 agricultural promotional events per year (48 with 100 guests, 6 with 300 guests, and 4 with 600 guests) and participation in 4 industry wide events on 67.84 acres.
    sounds like quite a few people will be working there too. And they could even commute by bike.
    The parcel is not under a Land Conservation Act contract.
    so why again is this a bad thing?
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  8. TopTop #7
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
    Supporting Member

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!Th

    Industrial wineries and vineyards--with their monocrop--threaten humans, other critters, and the environment in many ways. Human, animal, and plant life NEED the basics, such as water, food, and shelter. By over-populating the planet with people and our needs, we threaten our survival, as well as that of other life forms. A moderate amount of wine is certainly appropriate. Wine rules Sonoma County, which can no longer claim to be fully democratic.

    I bought my farm over two decades ago, before the price of arable land went up, due to the wine barons. Few young people today can afford to live in Sonoma County, much less farm. Even many locals need to leave in order to find places to rent, since prices are too high here.

    The Laguna de Santa Rosa is a unique international environment. It is already polluted by Sebastopol and Santa Rosa wastes. Thoreau wrote that "swamps" protect small towns and the surrounding environment. The Laguna is more than a resource--it is a jewel, a treasure. It should not be further degraded by yet another industrial operation, the consequences of which would be huge on the wildlife. I could go on and on, but I wanted to get a prompt response out, and let other people add their concerns.

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    sounds like quite a few people will be working there too. And they could even commute by bike.so why again is this a bad thing?
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  9. TopTop #8
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!Th

    Quote Shepherd wrote: View Post
    Industrial wineries and vineyards--with their monocrop--threaten humans, other critters, and the environment in many ways.... By over-populating the planet with people and our needs, we threaten our survival, as well as that of other life forms..... Few young people today can afford to live in Sonoma County, much less farm. Even many locals need to leave in order to find places to rent, since prices are too high here.

    ... The Laguna is more than a resource--it is a jewel, a treasure. It should not be further degraded by yet another industrial operation, the consequences of which would be huge on the wildlife.
    ok, so it's not just this project - it's more that you feel any winery expansion is inappropriate. And that any development near the laguna is equally inappropriate. I think you're undercutting your position with the rent argument, though; a winery in the area will provide more jobs than it will raise rents - you're not implying a winery there will result in conversion of working-class housing to something that serves some more elite group, are you? True, there isn't enough low-cost housing but that's a bad reason to oppose creation of more jobs in the area. I think the wine business is a good one for jobs; better than orchards or electronic assembly shops.

    I have some sympathy with the desire to keep this part of the county diversified-rural and low population. I just don't think it's an easy call. Light industry, which wineries are, is to me far preferable to more retail. I've said before that I like the southern entrance to Santa Rosa, with the proliferation of small businesses. Also, I don't share the displeasure with tourism that's so common here. We live in an area extremely attractive to tourists; if I didn't live here, I'd visit. And I do visit other areas that some of the locals probably wish they could keep for themselves. Maybe if given the opportunity to do it over, it would be great to leave vast swaths of the laguna undeveloped. There's a big wetlands between Davis and Sacramento that must have been beautiful before it was similarly partitioned.

    My first response to this thread was a question about 'why this development' is bad. It doesn't sound like the specifics of this proposal are really the issue - it's more of a general objection, right?
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  11. TopTop #9
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!Th

    I seem to remember that over in the Napa Valley they nixed any more wineries several years ago, because the whole area had suffered from, among other stuff, the 18-wheel traffic necessary to run a vineyard and winery.....
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  13. TopTop #10
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    So far, I have only one big objection to this project, and that's the impact on the multi-use trail.

    There are 40 acres of vineyards currently at the site which are irrigated with treated waste water from Santa Rosa. That vineyard will remain and will continue to be irrigated with waste water and no new vineyards would be added. There's nothing stated about their farming practices. I note that this week's North Bay Business Journal has an article called "Sonoma County grape growers release 100-year sustainability plan" so they appear to be paying at least some attention to their environment impact.

    This project is really about the replacement and moderate enlargement of the already developed part of the site, along with the upgrade and conversion of a small single family residence. There is also a significant amount of parking being added. I'd want the parking to be permeable.

    They state they will be using water from the onsite well for production. I think a careful analysis should be made of the net change of demand placed upon the existing well.

    I think the impact of the substantial increased traffic that crosses the Joe Rodota trail is both a safety hazard and a significant reduction of the pleasant use of this part of the trail.

    If this project is to go forward, I'd want to see the impact to the trail be mitigated by increased safety measures (Signage? Yellow crossbar added to the trail, like where it crosses Llano road?) While this will help to make it safer, it also reduces the quality of the experience of using the trail. To offset the impact of the public trail, I think a sizable financial contribution should be made to create or improve multi-use trails elsewhere in west county.

    From the their application (which is quite accessible)

    Existing Conditions

    The site is generally flat with gentle (2% to 5%) slopes towards an existing drainage that runs
    through the project site from east to west.The site contains three existing ponds
    (approximately 2 acres) with associated equipment, three existing well, eight existing buildings
    and approximately 40 acres of vineyard.The existing buildings are dilapidated and are a
    detriment to the visual character of the area.

    The buildings total almost 30,000 square feet and consist of:
    x Single family residence approximately 1,200 square feet
    x Concrete block building formerly used as a milking barn approximately 2,500 square feet
    x Wood and steel building formerly used as a hay barn approximately 13,000 square feet
    x Open sided pole barn used for cattle loafing and now for storage of agricultural
    equipment approximately 12,000 square feet
    x Well house approximately 450 square feet
    The site is zoned LEA 100 B6 Z, F2 SR VOH, Land Extensive Agriculture with a minimum lot size of
    100 acres.The zoning overlays consist of: no secondary unit allowance, floodplain, scenic
    resource and valley oak habitat districts.The land uses to the south and east are rural
    agricultural operations, to the west are commercial industrial properties and to the north is the
    Joe Rodota Trail and Highway 12.

    The existing vineyards are irrigated by treated wastewater provided by the City of Santa Rosa.
    The existing ponds were formerly manure ponds for the dairy operation.The eastern most
    pond has been converted to an irrigation pond to store the treated wastewater from the City.

    Proposed Project

    The proposed Dairyman project will remove the existing agricultural structures and replace
    them with facilities that will be able to produce and market 500,000 cases of wine and 250,000
    gallons of distilled spirits annually showcasing agricultural products such as apples and grapes
    sourced from the local area primarily from the local area highlighting Sonoma, Napa, Lake and
    Mendocino Counties.The existing single family residence will be remodeled and converted to a
    two unit marketing accommodation and new residence will be built.The facility will have 32 full
    time employees, 15 part time employees, and 5 seasonal employees.

    Summary of Proposed Buildings

    The proposed buildings will be setback from Highway 12 a minimum of 200 feet, will be a
    maximum height of 45 feet and will provide screening of the tanks and receiving area from view.
    The two large blending tanks are taller than the production building but are obscured from view
    by trees in the foreground and by the production building.Landscaping will be used to screen
    parking and buildings from Highway 12.

    The agrarian style and color pallet of the buildings are in concert with the surrounding
    agricultural area.The proposed lighting will be low and downward cast in order to avoid glare.
    The lot coverage of the proposed facilities is below the 5% maximum allowance (see A101).The
    winery production buildings will approximately 57,000 square feet in total and include the
    following (for references see A102):
    x 33,000 square feet for process equipment, barrel storage, case goods storage, bottling
    and truck docks (2A and 2B)
    x 5,000 square feet of cold storage (2C)
    x 19,000 square feet of stainless steel tanks (2D)
    The administrative building will be approximately 4,800 square feet and attached to the winery
    building (3A).
    The distillery buildings (4A, 4B, and 4C) will be approximately 19,000 square feet and attached
    to the west of the winery building.
    The hospitality buildings will be approximately 6,200 square feet in total and include the
    following:
    x 3,900 square feet tasting room with commercial kitchen, offices, restrooms and storage
    space (1A)
    x 1,100 square feet of detached tasting areas connected to the hospitality building by a
    covered walkway (1B and 1C)
    x 1,200 square feet marketing accommodation building with two units on the west edge
    of the proposed improvements (1D). These accommodations are intended for use as
    overnight accommodations for private guests such as distributors to promote Dairyman
    products.No commercial use is proposed.

    Exterior areas will include an exterior tank farm behind the production buildings, grape receiving
    area, crush pad with shade cover, and a scale with an adjacent 400 square foot scale house.

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  14. TopTop #11
    Timothy Gega
     

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!Th

    Quote Sara S wrote: View Post
    I seem to remember that over in the Napa Valley they nixed any more wineries several years ago, because the whole area had suffered from, among other stuff, the 18-wheel traffic necessary to run a vineyard and winery.....
    I believe (Sara) that you hit the nail on the head!
    One hint of advice: Negotiate to mitigate.
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  16. TopTop #12

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!Th

    Negotiate to mitigate? That's how we got the Barlow. They first ask for too much and they don't get it, after many lengthy hearings and public concern. Then it comes back again, modest this time, and we're tired and looking at expensive litigation, and by golly, here it is, smaller but still huge. I'd say on this one: NO NEGOTIATION.

    Quote Timothy Gega wrote: View Post
    I believe (Sara) that you hit the nail on the head!
    One hint of advice: Negotiate to mitigate.
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  18. TopTop #13
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
    Supporting Member

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!Th

    I just received the agenda for the Feb. 3, Tues., meeting of the Seb. City Council at the Youth Annex on Morris, next to the Community Center. The winery is item # 7, under "Public Hearing: Discussion & Action." This means that the Council will make a decision on what to send to the Board of Supervisors, due the next day.

    Each person present can speak for up to 3 minutes. The meeting itself starts at 6 p.m. There is one other Public Hearing before the winery, as well as a public comment time at the start of the meeting, when anyone can speak on any item not on the agenda. My rough guess would be that this item might start sometime between 6:30 and 7 p.m. I hope that a lot of people will go and testify. I will be at a Farm Guild meeting nearby at the Grange, which starts at 6 p.m., so I will do my best to be there for part of the discussion.

    Quote sealwatcher wrote: View Post
    Negotiate to mitigate? That's how we got the Barlow. They first ask for too much and they don't get it, after many lengthy hearings and public concern. Then it comes back again, modest this time, and we're tired and looking at expensive litigation, and by golly, here it is, smaller but still huge. I'd say on this one: NO NEGOTIATION.
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  19. TopTop #14
    dominus's Avatar
    dominus
     

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    On December 30, 2014, Economist Martin Armstrong wrote "Wine Industry Confirms
    Same Trend in Energy" which appears to be entering a "massive deflationary vortex
    of economic decline."


    http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/1...end-in-energy/


    Armstrong has an extraordinary track record of economic predictions. Of course, it
    remains to be seen. Commodity surpluses are growing around the world and prices
    are dropping as demand falls off. It's conceivable, in the US we are at the peak of
    the bull market in the wine industry and are first entering a significant contraction
    and I mean, significant.
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  21. TopTop #15
    Richard Nichols's Avatar
    Richard Nichols
     

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!Th

    Bad bad bad for many reasons, but for me two stand out: 1. impact on the trail. 2. We don't want community separators filling up with this kind of thing. Open space means open space and many people worked long and hard to keep our county from being filled up with development, not the least of which was Bill Kortum. If he were here he'd be meeting with people to come up with a strategy to defeat this sucker. Not letting this happen is a way to honor his efforts.

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    sounds like quite a few people will be working there too. And they could even commute by bike.so why again is this a bad thing?
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  23. TopTop #16
    Richard Nichols's Avatar
    Richard Nichols
     

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    Barry, you will be hearing many objections to this monster.

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    So far, I have only one big objection to this project, and that's the impact on the multi-use trail....
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  25. TopTop #17
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    Quote Richard Nichols wrote: View Post
    Barry, you will be hearing many objections to this monster.
    I expect so. However so far, there hasn't been many specific complaints or issues raised.

    If you guys want to stop this you better come up with some good reasons fast!

    So far is seems like generic "whatever it is, I'm against it"
    Last edited by Barry; 02-06-2015 at 02:48 AM.

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  27. TopTop #18
    Richard Nichols's Avatar
    Richard Nichols
     

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    No Barry, this is not NIMBY. This is about keeping the integrity of open space and community separators. This is so new that people will have to take some time to analyze it further. The first reaction of NO is not frivolous, but from the experiemce of years of seeing these kinds of proposals which ofter succed in spite of public opposition.
    I think our secret weapon, a very queen of wonky analysis, will be coming up with a succinct analyisis. And we'll see if our esteemed 5th District super can cast the pivitol no vote if it comes to that.

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    I expect so. However so far, there hasn't been many specific complaints issued raised.

    If you guys want to stop this you better come up with some good reasons fast!

    So far is seems like generic "whatever it is, I'm against it"
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  29. TopTop #19
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
    Supporting Member

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    Dian has suggested a site check this Sunday for the winery proposed for 5150 Sebastopol Rd., which is Highway 12, slightly East of Llano Road. I would be available and suggest we meet there at 2:30, which would be after the Sebastopol Farmers' Market. Who else would be available at that time? There could also be additional times for small group or personal visits. I think that checking out the scene would be helpful for any testimony at the Seb. City Council this coming Tuesday and for when the application comes before the Board of Sups.

    I have already drafted what I plan to say Tuesday. Artistotle writes that there are three kinds of appeals that can be made in speeches: logos (reason), pathos (emotion), and ethos (ethics). There are environmental scientists whom I have been with at recent meetings about the Laguna. I will leave it up to them and others to make the logos appeals.

    I will be making appeals to pathos and ethos. I am a member of the Cunningham Marsh Preservation Committee, which fought off a major subdivision in the Marsh uplands about 15 years ago. Next to the Laguna, the Cunningham Marsh, in whose uplands I farm, is the second most unique wetlands in Sonoma County. It is part of the Blucher Creek Watershed, which supplies the Laguna with its best water, and is a tributary to the Russian River Watershed.

    I plan to start with the brief poem "The Peace of Wild Things" by elder farmer Wendell Berry. I currently plan to then refer to Thoreau's comment that "swamps" help protect small towns. "Let a thousand flowers bloom."
    Last edited by Barry; 01-31-2015 at 03:50 PM.
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  31. TopTop #20
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
    Supporting Member

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    Two important articles on the wine industry appear in the Press Democrat today. One is about a developer from China buying a large parcel in Sonoma Valley for millions of dollars, the link to which follows. The other is about wine baron Paul Hobbs agreeing to pay a $100,000 fine for damages he has done. He was threatened with a fine of millions of dollars. Sonoma County is increasingly becoming a magnet for the rich, whose wealth does not trickle down.

    Chinese developer buys Sonoma Valley resort property

    The $41 million purchase, of a 186-acre undeveloped site on the east side of Highway 12 near Lawndale Road, includes rights to develop a luxury resort and winery, along with a restaurant and almost a dozen high-end homes.
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  33. TopTop #21
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    Barry, surmising that this new behemoth will degrade more of our community is NOT "whatever it is, I'm against it."

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    ...So far is seems like generic "whatever it is, I'm against it"
    Last edited by Barry; 01-31-2015 at 03:51 PM.
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  35. TopTop #22
    Timothy Gega
     

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    Sad to say, Barry, but progress can rarely ever be stopped. It’s (almost) unconstitutional to tell a landowner what they can or can’t do with their own piece of the American Dream, (Property). But, with all these large venues congregating here, they can easily pay for some needed, major infrastructures to support their industries, and the hotels that will profit as well. Everyone has their dues to pay, and these large scale industries can pay and write these costs off too. Think of all the water they will use while everyone else had to kill their lawns or plants to conserve water, but not them.

    Also, as Sara S.clearly mentioned the “traffic” gridlock will become even more of a smog polluting issue with Sebastopol becoming a Destination during the summer months combined with the concerts on the River, etc. A trade off, compromise (from them) could help to mitigate this growing concern and problem at this entrance to both the River and the Pacific Ocean.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-31-2015 at 03:52 PM.
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  37. TopTop #23
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
    Supporting Member

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    Yes, it is difficult to stop or even slow down "progress." On the other hand, there was Bill Kortum. He stopped the powerful PG&E in its tracks as it sought to put in a nuclear reactor plant in Bodega Bay. For more on this important history, the Sonoma County Museum may still have its show up on that. What a disaster to SoCo, especially West County, if Bill and allies had not stopped that progress.

    As a former U.S. Army officer, I was one of millions who helped stop the American War on Vietnam. There are many examples where the people prevail, and some of those persons now live in Sonoma County.

    Now it is up to us to stop this industrial alcohol processing factory from going onto Highway 12, thus damaging the wildlife and worsening traffic. That water should be for all, not just the wealthy.

    Quote Timothy Gega wrote: View Post
    Sad to say, Barry, but progress can rarely ever be stopped. It’s (almost) unconstitutional to tell a landowner what they can or can’t do with their own piece of the American Dream, (Property). But, ...
    Last edited by Barry; 01-31-2015 at 03:53 PM.
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  39. TopTop #24
    Timothy Gega
     

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!Th

    One (or more) things to consider is that there is no guarantee that these industries will hire strictly from the Sebastopol Workforce. And, looking at today’s job market, the wages are not sustainable either. (Although) they all paint a rosy picture.
    But, one big concern: (said tongue in cheek here) is I am positive there will be no, none, DUIs from these industries, nor any workplace accidents, so (positively speaking) they nor their patrons and employees would ever require the services of a local hospital either…
    Last edited by Barry; 01-31-2015 at 03:53 PM.
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  41. TopTop #25
    dominus's Avatar
    dominus
     

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    China has major problems with shadow banking and rehypothecation. Their stimulus program to build infrastructure in the form of malls, apartment buildings and so forth is an epic disaster and I believe has yet to fully play out. Their growth for 2014 is way down and will continue to fall. Wealthy Chinese are wanting to get their money out of China and are buying up houses and businesses. They're doing this everywhere not just in the US. If China gets desperate enough they might try to repatriot money and force the hand of many Chinese to sell homes and businesses to answer such a call.


    My previous comment still holds. This expanding bull market in the wine industry can't and won't continue. When a decline ensues, it will be so significant, that people will still be talking about it a hundred years from now.
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  43. TopTop #26
    farmerdan's Avatar
    farmerdan
     

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    Quote Shepherd wrote: View Post
    Yes, it is difficult to stop or even slow down "progress."
    Normally, I am not an anti-growth guy, but the scale of this project seems way beyond reasonable. 500,000 cases is a lot of vino. For the record, I was a builder for many years, but fought the O'reilly project as being out of scale (note: only 1/2 was built, it could be twice as big) and fought for minimum lot sizes in West County so I have been on both sides of this fence.

    Since this site is already degraded from years of use, the use as a more commercial operation is not troubling.

    My concerns would be:

    Traffic: Putting that much traffic onto a high speed major highway without a stop light that is only two lanes is very problematic in my view, especially with events. Even turn out lanes do not solve this issue.

    Waste Water: There will need to be on site treatment, which basically means ground water infiltration of LOTS of waste water.

    The trail would be impacted.

    While we have lots of wineries in the unincorporated areas, in my view, these should really be done in incorporated areas where there is infrastructure for water and waste.

    Dan
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  44. TopTop #27
    dominus's Avatar
    dominus
     

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    At the moment, the greatest concern should be water. Wineries and vineyards are digging very deep wells. Deep enough to drain the aquifirs which we all depend on. In drought years, it's very short-sighted and poor planning to allow this to continue.


    Bear in mind, wineries are the beneficiaries of a tax funded infrastructure paid for by the citizens.
    Last edited by Barry; 01-31-2015 at 03:55 PM.
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  46. TopTop #28
    Sara S's Avatar
    Sara S
    Auntie Wacco

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    On the front page of today's Press Democrat: "Chinese firm buys large Sonoma Valley parcel, including rights to develop it with vacation complex, winery, high-end homes". A long-time resident who was president of an alliance which filed a legal challenge to development a decade ago said "It raises red flags," adding that the developer won't care about the impacts on the local community. "They just want to make money" he said.
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  48. TopTop #29
    geomancer's Avatar
    geomancer
     

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!

    You can check out the site on Google maps:

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/51...b49941ee?hl=en

    Quote Shepherd wrote: View Post
    Dian has suggested a site check this Sunday for the winery proposed for 5150 Sebastopol Rd., which is Highway 12, slightly East of Llano Road. I would be available and suggest we meet there at 2:30, which would be after the Sebastopol Farmers' Market. Who else would be available at that time? There could also be additional times for small group or personal visits. I think that checking out the scene would be helpful for any testimony at the Seb. City Council this coming Tuesday and for when the application comes before the Board of Sups....
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  50. TopTop #30
    AllorrahBe's Avatar
    AllorrahBe
     

    Re: New Large Winery Proposed for Hwy 12 at Llano Road!Th

    In the words of someone famous: OMG!

    In the words of The Great One, Jackie Gleason: Scares me, and I ain't scared of nothin'

    One question: Where are all those Trailmakers who were so hot to run their trail across Luther's sacred grounds? Are they gonna be down with trucks crossing that trail all day (or however often it actually will happen) and polluting the air there where the driveway will cross the Joe Rodota Trail.

    One more question: Would it be possible for them to enter/exit this property from Llano? It would relieve the already-awful traffic problem on #12. Today I saw evidence of a bad crash right near the Grange and the auction place, and I thought I saw some debris at the actual intersection of #116 and #12. Then there was also apparently a stalled car and traffic backed up all the way to the cemetery on Bodega #12.

    We are going to have more and more traffic delays for a while with the bridge project; when do these folks intend to start construction? When will the wine/other products be leaving the property in trucks, and what kind of trucks will those be?

    I trust the Council will cover these and other kinds of considerations; after all, we voted for them because we believed they had our best interests at heart and would NEVER do anything to "cross" the people of Sebastopol and the thousands of people who travel these two highways and shop in our area.

    What's in it for us? What concessions could possibly be offered that would make this a win-win situation? Obviously, a great deal of thought has already been put into this project; lets all be sure our thoughts are included!

    Praying for Peace,
    Rev. BE

    Quote Timothy Gega wrote: View Post
    I believe (Sara) that you hit the nail on the head!

    One hint of advice: Negotiate to mitigate.
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