Clint Eastwood's American Sniper

[RialtoMelissa]

American Sniper, based on Navy SEAL marksman Chris Kyle's best-selling memoir, is both a tribute to the warrior and a lament for war.

[forveterans49]

This guy is NOT a hero and really is an insult to real soldiers. He lied about kicking the butt of Jesse Ventura, also. This is a good read: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2...erican-sniper/

American Sniper, based on Navy SEAL marksman Chris Kyle's best-selling memoir, is both a tribute to the warrior and a lament for war.

[Ronaldo]

Your smack talk about Chris Kyle neither relates to or is supported by the movie review. The well written review questions the film's historical accuracy and wants to ignore the fact American Sniper is a Hollywood movie and not a political statement or a Ken Burns documentary. It does not mention Kyle's heroism or lack of it.
According to Wiki:
"Kyle served four tours in the Iraq War and was awarded several commendations for acts of heroism and meritorious service in combat. He received two Silver Star Medals, fiveBronze Star Medals, one Navy and Marine Corps commendation Medal, and two Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medals.…He was wounded twice and involved in six IED attacks."

Please tell us why you don't think he is a hero and why you think he is an insult to "real' soldiers?

(The Wiki article does say he likely lied about punching Ventura but does that make him less of a Hero?)

This guy is NOT a hero and really is an insult to real soldiers. He lied about kicking the butt of Jesse Ventura, also. This is a good read: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2...erican-sniper/

[forveterans49]

I don't really need to explain my opinion to anyone but, getting all those medals doesn't make one a good soldier. He was a sniper and all that takes in and had hateful, misguided thoughts on the very ones he was targeting. Falling for the lie that Muslims are evil makes me sick and any soldier who succumbs to that stupid thought is running on emotion and not truth. This Kyle guy is no one I would want my son to emulate. Enough said from me.

Your smack talk about Chris Kyle neither relates to or is supported by the movie review. The well written review questions the film's historical accuracy and wants to ignore the fact American Sniper is a Hollywood movie and not a political statement or a Ken Burns documentary. It does not mention Kyle's heroism or lack of it.
According to Wiki:
"Kyle served four tours in the Iraq War and was awarded several commendations for acts of heroism and meritorious service in combat. He received two Silver Star Medals, fiveBronze Star Medals, one Navy and Marine Corps commendation Medal, and two Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medals.…He was wounded twice and involved in six IED attacks."

Please tell us why you don't think he is a hero and why you think he is an insult to "real' soldiers?

(The Wiki article does say he likely lied about punching Ventura but does that make him less of a Hero?)

[Roland Jacopetti]

Check the review of American Sniper in the current Bohemian. No, thanks.

Roland

Your smack talk about Chris Kyle neither relates to or is supported by the movie review. ...

[Ronaldo]

Your entitled to your opinion, however, in a public forum it would be more useful if you were to tell us why in your opinion Chris Kyle is not a hero. Instead you besmirch Kyle as if you were there in Iraq, on the scene and had information no one else was aware of about this man and his actions. Well, clue us in please. While your at it tell us how you know that Kyle hates Muslims in general, and not just people in Middle Eastern dress who are about to launch a rocket or shoot a bullet at his comrades. Apparently you are a mind reader too, being privy to Kyle's "hateful thoughts".

You're wrong about the medals. Soldiers simply do not get "lots of medals" because they are not good soldiers. In fact it is just the opposite. Unless you have proof, your assertion that Kyle was not a good soldier is not an opinion but a lie.

Your judgement of Chris Kyle is a moralistic one and is not supported by any facts. Your the one who is running on emotions and not truth, as you have not presented any.

Keep your moralistic high ground but realize that your defamation of Chris Kyle only spotlights your own prejudice.

I don't really need to explain my opinion to anyone but, getting all those medals doesn't make one a good soldier. He was a sniper and all that takes in and had hateful, misguided thoughts on the very ones he was targeting. Falling for the lie that Muslims are evil makes me sick and any soldier who succumbs to that stupid thought is running on emotion and not truth. This Kyle guy is no one I would want my son to emulate. Enough said from me.

[Tinkerbell]

Without getting into the issue of whether war and killing are necessary, I would like to criticize any system which honors an individual for killing 160 people. It's one thing to say that killing in necessary, but quite another to honor the killers.

Your entitled to your opinion, however, in a public forum it would be more useful if you were to tell us why in your opinion Chris Kyle is not a hero. Instead you besmirch Kyle as if you were there in Iraq, on the scene and had information no one else was aware of about this man and his actions. Well, clue us in please. While your at it tell us how you know that Kyle hates Muslims in general, and not just people in Middle Eastern dress who are about to launch a rocket or shoot a bullet at his comrades. Apparently you are a mind reader too, being privy to Kyle's "hateful thoughts".

You're wrong about the medals. Soldiers simply do not get "lots of medals" because they are not good soldiers. In fact it is just the opposite. Unless you have proof, your assertion that Kyle was not a good soldier is not an opinion but a lie.

Your judgement of Chris Kyle is a moralistic one and is not supported by any facts. Your the one who is running on emotions and not truth, as you have not presented any.

Keep your moralistic high ground but realize that your defamation of Chris Kyle only spotlights your own prejudice.

[Ronaldo]

I agree with you. However, when servicemen and women are honored by our country it is not for their kills but for their courage, bravery, and often something you might not have considered, the lives they saved.

This thread was started about a recent film, American Sniper. For an interesting parallel I suggest you watch the 1941 movie "Sergeant York" starring Gary Cooper. Like American Sniper it is based upon actual events.
Sergeant York unlike Chris Kyle was a conscientious objector yet both men did in fact kill many of the enemy and both men were awarded medals for their heroism. Gary Cooper also received an Oscar for his role as Sergeant York. It is interesting that the star of American Sniper is also named Cooper. He also has been nominated for an Academy Award , do you think he will get an Oscar?

Without getting into the issue of whether war and killing are necessary, I would like to criticize any system which honors an individual for killing 160 people. It's one thing to say that killing in necessary, but quite another to honor the killers.

.

[forveterans49]

Hating Muslims in general seemed to be something he believed in and wrote himself. I always find it interesting that people who say they are 'christian' don't seem to really understand what Jesus was about. I am not religious but don't think Jesus is the sort of person hateful, racist people know anything about. Might want to read this article with his own words...https://www.cruxnow.com/life/2015/01...e-in-the-film/

Your entitled to your opinion, however, in a public forum it would be more useful if you were to tell us why in your opinion Chris Kyle is not a hero. Instead you besmirch Kyle as if you were there in Iraq, on the scene and had information no one else was aware of about this man and his actions. Well, clue us in please. While your at it tell us how you know that Kyle hates Muslims in general, and not just people in Middle Eastern dress who are about to launch a rocket or shoot a bullet at his comrades. Apparently you are a mind reader too, being privy to Kyle's "hateful thoughts".

You're wrong about the medals. Soldiers simply do not get "lots of medals" because they are not good soldiers. In fact it is just the opposite. Unless you have proof, your assertion that Kyle was not a good soldier is not an opinion but a lie.

Your judgement of Chris Kyle is a moralistic one and is not supported by any facts. Your the one who is running on emotions and not truth, as you have not presented any.

Keep your moralistic high ground but realize that your defamation of Chris Kyle only spotlights your own prejudice.

[handy]

Agreed. There was nothing remotely "Christian" about his behavior.
He murdered strangers in THEIR COUNTRY, with no remorse and with no consequences.
He was a paid and officially awarded murderer who went back for three more tours to continue his murderous behavior toward people who have not attacked America, and do not want us in their country.
Thanks to Eddie Ray Routh, this psychopath is no longer loose on the streets of THIS country.

Hating Muslims in general seemed to be something he believed in and wrote himself. I always find it interesting that people who say they are 'christian' don't seem to really understand what Jesus was about. I am not religious but don't think Jesus is the sort of person hateful, racist people know anything about. Might want to read this article with his own words...https://www.cruxnow.com/life/2015/01...e-in-the-film/

[Ronaldo]

You must represent the up close and personal Christians with your knowledge of what is "not remotely Christian". You know, of course that Chris Kyle was a life long Christian,studied the Bible and even carried one on the battlefield. But, he wasn't your kind of Christian, and you think that gives you the right to slander and demean this man, calling him a murderer and a psychopath. You obviously also have chosen to ignore the Christian admonition to "judge not least ye be judged". Or perhaps you just acknowledge the parts of the bible that support your views and your bigotry towards Chris Kyle. By your condemnation of him you dishonor the lives of the people he saved.
And finally— you give thanks to Routh the man who murdered Kyle and who truly is a psychopath,—now that's just plain fucked up!

There are two fundamental aspects of being a soldier that you have forgotten,never knew, and probably never will know.

The first is PATRIOTISM, probably a dirty word that you sneer at, and the other is DUTY, which probably has no meaning for you at all.

In 1961 John F. Kennedy (my Commander in Chief), said:

"My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

Your condemnation and slandering of one of our nation's soldiers is shameful.

Read about Chris Kyle's Christianity here:

'American Sniper' Chris Kyle Was a Good Christian Man Who Did Not 'Love War,' Says Widow Amid Film Criticism

'American Sniper' Chris Kyle Was a Good Christian Man...Chris Kyle, the former Navy SEAL who inspired Clint Eastwood's blockbuster film "American Sniper," was a man of faith with a "huge heart" despite what some critics ...
View on www.christianpost.com

Agreed. There was nothing remotely "Christian" about his behavior.
He murdered strangers in THEIR COUNTRY, with no remorse and with no consequences.
He was a paid and officially awarded murderer who went back for three more tours to continue his murderous behavior toward people who have not attacked America, and do not want us in their country.
Thanks to Eddie Ray Routh, this psychopath is no longer loose on the streets of THIS country.

[handy]

I made no claim to represent, or even be, Christian.

Etymologically, an "-ian" on the end of a word denotes "-like" or "as-".

I have no interest in the bible other than as a politically directed, and much edited, attempt at social history of questionable accuracy.

Regardless of his claim to be Christian, his actual behavior was anything but Christ-like. So he lied, and you believed him.

He murdered people from a thousand yards away through a telescopic sight with no danger to himself. I call that a cowardly act.

His claim regarding 'the lives of people he saved', is as much a lie as his claim to Christianity. You've seen a list? Didn't think so...

I think Routh was just as screwed up as Kyle by the conditioning and brainwashing that the government performs on what used to be healthy normal children. He was just the instrument of "What goes around, comes around." Karma's a bitch. You know, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Bringing people as damaged as Routh and Kyle back to the states and turning them loose is what gives us cops like Eric Gelhaus.

And as long as people keep voting for nationalist socialist warfare/welfare demolican/republicrat sociopaths like our current so-called leaders, the sick system is self perpetuating.

Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels, and my duty is to do good for those I can serve. Duty to the concept of attempting to justify aggressive violence toward others is an utter corruption of the term.

I'm not condemning Kyle (or Routh) so much as the system that broke their minds. But you seem to think that the output of that system is acceptable. I am a veteran. If you are not, then I'll claim my direct experience trumps your vocal ignorance.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

You must represent the up close and personal Christians with your knowledge of what is "not remotely Christian". You know, of course that Chris Kyle was a life long Christian,studied the Bible and even carried one on the battlefield. But, he wasn't your kind of Christian, and you think that gives you the right to slander and demean this man, calling him a murderer and a psychopath. You obviously also have chosen to ignore the Christian admonition to "judge not least ye be judged". Or perhaps you just acknowledge the parts of the bible that support your views and your bigotry towards Chris Kyle. By your condemnation of him you dishonor the lives of the people he saved.
And finally— you give thanks to Routh the man who murdered Kyle and who truly is a psychopath,—now that's just plain fucked up!

There are two fundamental aspects of being a soldier that you have forgotten,never knew, and probably never will know.

The first is PATRIOTISM, probably a dirty word that you sneer at, and the other is DUTY, which probably has no meaning for you at all.

[podfish]

You must represent the up close and personal Christians with your knowledge of what is "not remotely Christian". You know, of course that Chris Kyle was a life long Christian,studied the Bible and even carried one on the battlefield. But, he wasn't your kind of Christian, and you think that gives you the right to slander and demean this man, calling him a murderer and a psychopath. You obviously also have chosen to ignore the Christian admonition to "judge not least ye be judged". Or perhaps you just acknowledge the parts of the bible that support your views and your bigotry towards Chris Kyle. By your condemnation of him you dishonor the lives of the people he saved.

it's pretty damn weird that there are 'kinds of Christians'. And that many who feel they are devout followers of Christ are willing to kill to preserve honor and freedom - neither of those concepts are in the bible, except marginally in some of the more primitive parts of the old testament. Wanna quote me some scripture and prove me wrong??

This is the dude who said "turn the other cheek" and "render unto caesar", admonished Peter for defending him against arrest, and went to his death even though it was undeserved. He most emphatically did nothing to encourage revolution or even resistance against an occupying army and a corrupt government, beyond once losing his temper in the marketplace.

I don't have any real problem with defending soldiers' actions, actually, since their societies clearly send them out to do what they end up doing. Our society encourages a lot of behaviors that border on psychopathy - it's not fair or reasonable to those in Kyle's position to indict them for responding as they do when they're trained that way and rewarded for their actions. There are indeed pacifists who feel that, say, the war against the Nazis wasn't the right way to handle the situation - that it was fighting wrong with another wrong and non-violent resistance would have been the only moral way to resist. And yeah, people would be victimized and killed. Christ was down with that, too. I find it a bit amazing that I've never really heard a Christian acknowledge that. Again, please quote me some of his teachings that counter my view!

[Ronaldo]

I don't find it weird at all that their are "kinds of Christians" as there are kinds of Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Quakers, and others. Since religions embody humans they can't help but to evolve (do I dare use that word when referring to Christians!), devolve, split, and otherwise change over time.
You won't get me to bite into the apple of Biblical positions on violence. If your willing to accept another source I think this Wikipedia link covers the topic rather well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_violence

I'm a veteran from an era when patriotism and duty meant something. Something like the willingness to die for our country, I was offended by the biased personal attacks against Chris Kyle, a fellow soldier. I stand by my fellow soldiers. The verbal attacks against Chris Kyle that appeared in earlier posts were slanderous, ugly, and unsupported rants. I suspect that few Christians(of all kinds) would feel compelled to spew such hateful thoughts in a public forum. That a veteran would write in this way is saddening.

it's pretty damn weird that there are 'kinds of Christians'. ...

[podfish]

IYou won't get me to bite into the apple of Biblical positions on violence. If your willing to accept another source I think this Wikipedia link covers the topic rather well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_violence

sounds like they support my take. I still think it's weird that the standard American Christian position isn't particularly pacifist. Though most Christians probably haven't read the wikipedia thing. And even if they did, they wouldn't change the way they feel; everyone's more convinced by truthiness, and they know in their hearts that god's on their side 'cuz it feels so right and that wrongdoers must be punished or at least actively thwarted.

I do understand why attacks on Kyle feel like personal attacks to so many who are proud of their patriotism. It seems to me to come from the same place that prevents cops from understanding "I can't breathe". There's nothing that says this has to be black & white or either-or. But ambivalence and ambiguity aren't respected enough. Many people gravitate to worldviews without them.

[podfish]

nice comment on Slate's review of the movie:

https://www.slate.com/articles/arts/...ment=262562053

JacobCerf 5 days ago

Ever since Wilfred Owen and Siegfried Sassoon got hold of World War I, there have been only two acceptable moral stances for an Anglo-American soldier. Either he is the (sometimes naive) victim of inept and uncaring military and political leadership, or he is a civilian at heart reluctantly doing what is necessary so that he can return home. The one thing he cannot be is a warrior -- like Ernst Junger in Storm of Steel - who finds excitement, meaning and pride in subordination, in killing and in the risk of his own death. The Kyle presented in American Sniper is a warrior: war gives him purpose and fulfillment his life, he returns to it willingly, he takes great and justified pride in his craft as a discriminating killer of single individuals, and he is rewarded with honor by his fellow soldiers. That's why it horrifies those it horrifies. That's also why it's popular with audiences.
When Nixon ended the draft, the United States decided that we would have no more citizen soldiers and that we would henceforth fight our colonial wars with people who turned their backs on civilian life by inclination or out of need. We went back to Kipling's army of outsiders and rejects, which is the true Anglo-American military tradition. Part of that tradition is that civilians who know nothing of military life, and who don't want to know, can sentimentalize their regular soldiers, in the manner of Charge of the Light Brigade or Epitaph for an Army of Mercenaries, without actually caring very much about them as individuals or having anything of their own at stake. Kyle was a modern day Redcoat, and American Sniper allows the middle class patriots at home to give him posthumous honor from a safe distance.

[Valley Oak]

American Sniper: Does accuracy matter?

https://www.tytnetwork.com/2015/01/2...curacy-matter/

[phredo]

Chris Hedges' article, "Killing Ragheads For Jesus", https://www.truthdig.com/report/category/hedges , says it all, in my humble opinion. Worth a read.

There are so many things one could say on the subject, and here's one from me.

Not having read the book or seen the movie, I'll trust Hedges for this information about the book: he writes that Kyle's father told him at the family dinner table, “There are three types of people in this world: sheep, wolves and sheepdogs. Some people prefer to believe evil doesn’t exist in the world. And if it ever darkened their doorstep they wouldn’t know how to protect themselves. Those are the sheep. And then you got predators.”

So Kyle decided he would become a "sheepdog" and protect the helpless sheep from the evil wolves. Not a bad way to feel, I think, in general. But what does Kyle decide to do? He travels 10,000 miles to kill people who are defending their land from American invaders. Why, instead, would he not join the people he decides to kill and fight the "wolf" invaders? Why doesn't he stay at home to fight the "wolves" here? There are certainly plenty of them -- the oil company magnates and the like who are destroying the planet, the bankers who are driving the country to ruin, the cops who torture and kill innocent people. You can make up your own list. If one wishes to be a patriotic avenging angel, there are plenty of opportunities close to home.

Two possibilities. He was brainwashed by an evil system's lackeys so that he couldn't tell right from wrong, and/or he lacked fortitude to aim his gun where it might do some "good", given his slant on violence as a means for doing good, and decided to pick some easy targets instead.

And books and movies like these further false conceptions of who the "enemy" is and glorify taking easy, in the sense they are socially accepted, paths to "heroism".

That's my two cents.

[Valley Oak]

.
The Young Turks Network
JANUARY 26, 2015

American Sniper Chris Kyle Was Full Of Lies, Just Like The Movie



“American Sniper is a bona fide cultural phenomenon.

The war drama, which racked up a surprising 6 Oscar nominations—including Best Picture—collected a massive $90.2 million in its opening weekend to set a record for January. Its nearest competition was James Cameron’s Avatar, which grossed $68.5 million in its first January frame on its way to $760 million domestic and close to $2.8 billion worldwide.

Directed by Clint Eastwood, the film tells the real-life tale of Chris Kyle (Bradley Cooper), the most lethal sniper in U.S. military history. Nicknamed “Legend,” the Navy SEAL served four tours in the Iraq War, received several commendations for valor, and racked up 160 confirmed kills—though he later claimed the actual number was 255.”* The Young Turks host Cenk Uygur breaks it down.

*Read more here:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ake-sides.html

[arthunter]

Here is someone who's had personal problems with Chris Kyle ...

https://www.people.com/article/jesse...-liar-not-hero


and now Michael Moore has accused of Clint Eastwood of trying to kill him ... ( perhaps I should put this story in the political targeting column ) ....

https://www.alternet.org/culture/mic...atened-kill-me


ah, just another American drama ... add it to the list ....

[Valley Oak]

Thank you for both articles. I read them and they are shocking and disturbing, to say the least. Eastwood did indeed publicly threaten to kill Michael Moore with a too thinly veiled attempt at making it look like a joke, especially considering the fact that Eastwood asserted, "'I mean it' ...the audience grew more quiet. 'I'll shoot you.'"

It was not funny and it was not appropriate at all. Clint Eastwood is an asshole!

Here is someone who's had personal problems with Chris Kyle ...

https://www.people.com/article/jesse...-liar-not-hero


and now Michael Moore has accused of Clint Eastwood of trying to kill him ... ( perhaps I should put this story in the political targeting column ) ....

https://www.alternet.org/culture/mic...atened-kill-me


ah, just another American drama ... add it to the list ....