Questions rather than answers regarding the Carrillo Controversy

[Shepherd]

The following letter was published in the PD today. I consider it to be one of the best things I've seen on the Carrillo controversy; it is question rather than answer based. It focuses not on the personal but on "public office." It feels more balanced than most of what has been written, including by myself. I thank the PD reporters and the editors's choices of letters to publish. They have tended to be more balanced than some of the online comments.

Respecting public office
EDITOR: Supervisor Efren Carrillo's supporters are right that he is entitled to due process. But ask yourself: Did the police lie in their report after they arrested Carrillo? Did he check himself into rehab the day after his arrest because he was innocent? Were the police in San Diego lying in their report following Carrillo's arrest for brawling while drunk?
Whether he beats the charges is irrelevant to me as a voter. Is it too much to ask for an elected official who obeys the law? Is it too much to ask for an elected official who does not engage in brawls? Is it too much to ask for an elected official who doesn't walk the streets in his underwear at night? Is it too much to ask for an elected official who doesn't destroy someone else's private property? Is it too much to ask for an elected official who doesn't party and drink past the point of excess?
In a word, no.
If Carrillo's arrests were prior to him being elected, would you have voted for him? Of course not. It's time to move on. Certainly there are other qualified people out there who will respect public office.
JOE AQUILA
Sebastopol

[tomcat]

Well, Joe asks a lot of questions here. Lets give his questions some answers then.
[answers inserted into quoted text]

The following letter was published in the PD today. I consider it to be one of the best things I've seen on the Carrillo controversy; it is question rather than answer based. It focuses not on the personal but on "public office." It feels more balanced than most of what has been written, including by myself. I thank the PD reporters and the editors's choices of letters to publish. They have tended to be more balanced than some of the online comments.

Respecting public office
EDITOR: Supervisor Efren Carrillo's supporters are right that he is entitled to due process. But ask yourself:

Did the police lie in their report after they arrested Carrillo?

How would we even know that? No one has seen the report yet.

Did he check himself into rehab the day after his arrest because he was innocent?

No charges have been filed, no trial has been concluded. He would be innocent until proven guilty, same as you or me. Innocent of what? Certainly not of drinking, as he has admitted to that and that is what rehab is for.

Were the police in San Diego lying in their report following Carrillo's arrest for brawling while drunk?

Again, How would I know if the police were lying? "Brawling while drunk" is a bit different than defending your friends after an evening of partying. I give him a pass on that one. I might have handled it differently, but how do I know? I was not there in the heat of the moment.

Whether he beats the charges is irrelevant to me as a voter. Is it too much to ask for an elected official who obeys the law?

Absolutely not.

Is it too much to ask for an elected official who does not engage in brawls?

It was A fight to defend his friends. That is different (to me) than "brawls". As I said before, I give him a pass on that one, but I'm sure he will think about how to handle things differently if possible in the future.

Is it too much to ask for an elected official who doesn't walk the streets in his underwear at night?

Absolutely not. Unless of course, he locks himself out of his house. I've done that myself!

Is it too much to ask for an elected official who doesn't destroy someone else's private property?

No, but it has not been established yet that he did that.

Is it too much to ask for an elected official who doesn't party and drink past the point of excess?

A persons private life is their own. I would bet that MANY politicians and just regular folks drink to excess on occasion. I would judge them on what they do as an elected official in performing their official duties. Not so much their private life. (how can you drink PAST the point of excess?)

In a word, no.
If Carrillo's arrests were prior to him being elected, would you have voted for him?

Maybe yes and maybe no, depending on the charges brought and the outcome of the arrests and trials. But we don't know the outcome of the latest arrest yet, so I can't say for sure.

Of course not. It's time to move on. Certainly there are other qualified people out there who will respect public office.

Well Joe, it is rather presumptious of you to assume that everyone will agree with everything you said. I am sure there are many other qualified people out there who would appear to respect public office, but who knows what they would be doing behind the scenes and out of the view of the public eye? You never know what you're going to get with politicians... In their elected position, it usually depends on who gives them the most money for their election. In their private life, it's a crap shoot. I want someone who respects the office, but I'm not looking for a perfect person, because they don't exist!

JOE AQUILA
Sebastopol

[spam1]

No charges have been filed, no trial has been concluded. He would be innocent until proven guilty, same as you or me.

I'm always a little surprised when statements like this are made...One is guilty or innocent immediately. However, when on trial, one is presumed innocent (only for the purpose of a jury decision) and a jury must vote for acquittal until the state proves, to a moral certainty, that one in-fact committed the crime. The last time I was on jury duty, the defense asked "who thinks he's guilty" based on the limited discussion of the charges...no one raised their hand. Then he said "who thinks he's innocent" and no one raised their hand to that either. He asked Juror #1 "why didn't you raise your hand" and the juror said "because I haven't heard anything about this yet, I don't know anything to judge it on" and of course the defense said "That's exactly what presumed innocent means, you HAVE to raise your hand if you had given him the presumption of innocence"

So, we can, outside the court room, discuss the idea of a person being "guilty" even if he is acquitted because a jury decision isn't based on the truth, only on what was proved by the evidence. See OJ or Zimmerman.

[Shepherd]

Yesterday's Press Democrat, Sept. 5, has 2 more excellent letters to the editor on the Carrillo Controversy, which follow.

A choice, not a disease
EDITOR: Save for the victim of Supervisor Efren Carrillo's troll around the neighborhood in his underwear and socks, prowling is not the real issue. I hope the victim gets the justice she seeks, and I am sure everyone supports all her efforts. The issue is Carrillo's lack of self-control, his morally reprehensible behavior and his inherent lack of character.
The most embarrassing action he has done along with his followers is hiding behind the self-induced choice to drink alcohol and label this a disease. Cancer is a disease; picking up a beer is a choice. If you drink too much, it is a bad choice, but it's a choice nonetheless. Given the choice of cancer or alcohol consumption, most likely those in the population with cancer would choose the beer. Unfortunately cancer is a real disease, not a choice.
It's time for Carrillo to stop whining about his problems and face the facts. He drinks too much, and he's lucky enough to have a conveniently labeled self-induced problem that received disease status, which in turn provides him with lack of responsibility and a solid excuse.
GARY REYNOLDS, Sebastopol

A higher standard
EDITOR: Supervisor Efren Carrillo's supporters are missing a fundamental point about elected officials. They say he has not been adjudicated for the events of July 13, therefore, we must wait to determine if he should remain a county supervisor. This is a matter of community confidence and trust. Either criminal or poor judgment, his actions were unacceptable for a public servant.
Neither Carrillo nor his lawyer has disputed the facts as reported. He was arrested, intoxicated, only in underwear and socks, after attempting to enter an apartment. If Carrillo is not a sexual predator but instead has a serious alcohol problem, which results in irrational decisions that have culminated in two arrests within ten months, he deserves our compassion but clearly is unsuitable to serve.
Carrillo stated, “Little of this criticism relates to the performance of my official duties.” However, seven weeks in seclusion as the business of the Fifth District goes unattended is dereliction of duty. Unwilling to face the public or press to answer obvious questions, he is only available for “internal county business.”
The Board of Supervisors and the Fifth District deserve far more. I ask Carrillo to take full responsibility and resign now.
MARY GOE
Santa Rosa

[Shepherd]

Following are two letters in the PD today, one challenging Carrillo supporters and the other asserting that he has been a good "role model."

I wonder what kind of role model he really is now as he tries to retain his power and privilege after getting literally caught "with his pants down." Admitting to his alcoholism is a credit, except that he may be doing so to excuse his improper behavior. He is certainly not being fully transparent. Carrillo deserves his day in court, but the 5th District continues to lack representation, which also hurts the whole county, both its people and its environment. Yes, Carrillo has worked hard, for which he should be appreciated. Once he is rehabilitated, he could run again, and perhaps win. But for now, the entire county needs a full-time supervisor in that job, rather than one who has crippled himself.

Then and now
EDITOR: Isn't it ironic that Efren Carrillo's supporters blasted opponent Rue Furch in his first run for supervisor by claiming that paying her property taxes late — a victimless non-crime — made her unfit for public office. And now those same Carrillo supporters are trying to convince us that getting arrested twice in less than a year is just a little oopsie. Doesn't the Fifth District deserve a representative with good judgment and the wisdom to do what's right?
LOIS PEARLMAN, Guerneville


A role model
EDITOR: I have had the good fortune of seeing Supervisor Efren Carrillo work diligently and tirelessly on projects that I have also been involved in: Sonoma Clean Power and the Children's Museum of Sonoma County. I have been very impressed by what he has accomplished in his years in public service and the integrity I have always seen him display.

After watching his apology statement, I am so happy to see that he appears to grasp the nature and severity of the disease of alcoholism, so that his gifts may be fully realized in the future. He has been a role model for so many Hispanic (and other) youth, and now he can also be a role model in the way he transparently, authentically and courageously battles a demon so many talented youth face.
MELISSA BRONWYN KESTER, Healdsburg

[amalia]

This was written by my colleague, Magdalena Ridley: [This is not correct. It was written by Karen Fraser - Barry]

Little attention has been paid to the anonymous real victim of the alleged attempted sexual assault by Supervisor Efren Carrillo at approximately 3 AM on July 13, 2013. Since adult victims of sex crimes and domestic violence are awarded the option of “Jane Doe” status in the State of California, she is not speaking publicly for herself. It is up to other women and men in West Sonoma (District 5) and Greater Sonoma County to stand up and speak up for this woman. As a survivor of a stranger rape on a Univers...ity of California campus as a freshman, I know the reoccurring fear and terror that follows an event like what occurred on the early hours of July 13. Carrillo’s victim called 9-1-1 twice, as Carrillo admittedly attempted entry to her residence through her bedroom screen window and then by knocking on her door. I sought counseling help after a year of suppressing feelings of shame and guilt after my assault, and eventually I helped other women come to terms with their feelings as a rape crisis counselor out of Highland and Alta Bates Hospitals in Alameda County. I hope this West County woman is also receiving the counseling she needs.
Supervisor Efren Carrillo may not be charged or convicted yet, but he is currently incapable of representing his West Sonoma County constituents despite his claim that, “Little of this criticism relates to the performance of [my] official duties.” This incapacity to represent his constituents is two-fold: it has been 8 weeks with no interaction with his constituents, and he has lost the respect of county electeds and employees. us Please join for Public Comments on September 10th at 2 pm in the Board of Supervisors Chambers to tell Supervisor Efren Carrillo why he must resign!
Here are some talking points you may include if you choose to speak out:

• His behavior has brought shame and discredit to the fifth district and county.
• The woman is a real victim.
• County electeds priority should be to make sure that women are safe in their homes—not terrified at 3 AM.
• Supervisor Efren Carrillo stated his reason for firing Cathy Neville was for conduct “which brought shame and discredit on the county.” Why is Supervisor Efren Carrillo’s own behavior exempt from his own words?
• Supervisor Efren Carrillo has not been accountable to his district—silence is not acceptable.
• How long is he expecting for us to wait for an explanation?
• 5 weeks in in-patient detox and rehab with no availability to constituents and 8 weeks (minimum) of out-patient psychological treatment at Kaiser Permanente with availability only to intra-county employees and not his constituents is dereliction of duty.
• Whether Supervisor Efren Carrillo actually was drunk/high or suffers from addiction is irrelevant. What’s relevant is that he admittedly terrified a woman by attempting to break into her bedroom window screen wearing only his underwear and socks.
• How can a man who admitted to terrifying his female victim at a Board of Supervisors meeting function at the Supervisory level? It would be improper for him to appear at events such as the YWCA Rape Crisis/Domestic Violence fundraisers, Head Start events, Community BBQ’s, District Town Halls, etc. He is no longer useful to his constituents.
• Supervisor Efren Carrillo’s personal desire for his salary (over $100K) and continued medical benefits paying for detox, rehab and out-patient psychological counseling seems more important to him than making his constituents work long volunteer hours collecting signatures and funding a 250K Recall election.

I hope to see you there! Please invite your friends to this event.

[Shepherd]

My deep appreciations to Amalia for posting the following from Magdalena Ridley below. Hers is the real story here. I am glad that she is willing to speak truth to power.

Today's PD has yet another letter calling for Carrillo to resign, as follows. If he does, and is then rehabilitated, he could run for this office again.

Virtues of resigning
EDITOR: I read with interest the letter by Tina Marie Kelly (“Compassion for Carrillo,” Sunday). I agree that compassion should be shown to Efren Carrillo for his evident issues with alcohol abuse. It is a disease that permeates families everywhere. He truly has a problem, and that is why I feel he should resign and take time to concentrate on recovery that cannot be achieved in 30 days.

Requesting that he step down is not a lack of compassion; it is recognizing that he needs to step back and make a true recovery. Then he can return to the political arena stronger and more able than ever. His addiction problems, public outcries and being under the microscope of public opinion, not to mention the pressure of recall efforts by the North Bay Labor Council and others, must surely affect his ability to do the job that his constituents expect and deserve.

He is young. If he can recover, he can return and be unstoppable in his representation of many who will see him as a role model — someone who was troubled by a disease that most can relate to and who came back 110 percent. The sky will be the limit in the renewed, stronger political career of Efren Carrillo.
SHARON RYAN, Sonoma

[photolite]

Whatever yet to be determined degree of victimization this woman did or didn't experience is only compounded by the presumptuousness of equating it with a rape that nobody, until now, has had the effrontery to insinuate. As some have written about Efren's intentions with a certitude of a mind reader, now this woman, who for her own reasons has chosen to keep her head down, must suffer the further indignities of having strangers speak, unbidden, to her motives regarding her silence as well as her psychological state of mind and being.

My sympathies go out to the survivor who may be forgiven her indiscretion having lived through a trauma understandably recalled by the few and incomplete details of this disturbing situation.

The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves for contributing to the further victimization of the woman involved while your clear intent is first and foremost the downfall of Carrillo, deserved or not.

This was written by my colleague, Magdalena Ridley: [This is not correct. It was written by Karen Fraser (see a later post in this thread - Barry]

Little attention has been paid to the anonymous real victim of the alleged attempted sexual assault by Supervisor Efren Carrillo at approximately 3 AM on July 13, 2013. Since adult victims of sex crimes and domestic violence are awarded the option of “Jane Doe” status in the State of California, she is not speaking publicly for herself. It is up to other women and men in West Sonoma (District 5) and Greater Sonoma County to stand up and speak up for this woman. As a survivor of a stranger rape on a Univers...ity of California campus as a freshman, I know the reoccurring fear and terror that follows an event like what occurred on the early hours of July 13. Carrillo’s victim called 9-1-1 twice, as Carrillo admittedly attempted entry to her residence through her bedroom screen window and then by knocking on her door. I sought counseling help after a year of suppressing feelings of shame and guilt after my assault, and eventually I helped other women come to terms with their feelings as a rape crisis counselor out of Highland and Alta Bates Hospitals in Alameda County. I hope this West County woman is also receiving the counseling she needs.
Supervisor Efren Carrillo may not be charged or convicted yet, but he is currently incapable of representing his West Sonoma County constituents despite his claim that, “Little of this criticism relates to the performance of [my] official duties.” This incapacity to represent his constituents is two-fold: it has been 8 weeks with no interaction with his constituents, and he has lost the respect of county electeds and employees. us Please join for Public Comments on September 10th at 2 pm in the Board of Supervisors Chambers to tell Supervisor Efren Carrillo why he must resign!
Here are some talking points you may include if you choose to speak out:

• His behavior has brought shame and discredit to the fifth district and county.
• The woman is a real victim.
• County electeds priority should be to make sure that women are safe in their homes—not terrified at 3 AM.
• Supervisor Efren Carrillo stated his reason for firing Cathy Neville was for conduct “which brought shame and discredit on the county.” Why is Supervisor Efren Carrillo’s own behavior exempt from his own words?
• Supervisor Efren Carrillo has not been accountable to his district—silence is not acceptable.
• How long is he expecting for us to wait for an explanation?
• 5 weeks in in-patient detox and rehab with no availability to constituents and 8 weeks (minimum) of out-patient psychological treatment at Kaiser Permanente with availability only to intra-county employees and not his constituents is dereliction of duty.
• Whether Supervisor Efren Carrillo actually was drunk/high or suffers from addiction is irrelevant. What’s relevant is that he admittedly terrified a woman by attempting to break into her bedroom window screen wearing only his underwear and socks.
• How can a man who admitted to terrifying his female victim at a Board of Supervisors meeting function at the Supervisory level? It would be improper for him to appear at events such as the YWCA Rape Crisis/Domestic Violence fundraisers, Head Start events, Community BBQ’s, District Town Halls, etc. He is no longer useful to his constituents.
• Supervisor Efren Carrillo’s personal desire for his salary (over $100K) and continued medical benefits paying for detox, rehab and out-patient psychological counseling seems more important to him than making his constituents work long volunteer hours collecting signatures and funding a 250K Recall election.

I hope to see you there! Please invite your friends to this event.

[Shepherd]

For those who do not recognize the writer of the following comment, Magdalena Ridley is a long-time contributor to the PD, back as far as 2007, when she was a teenager, especially to the excellent "Voices" column that the paper used to publish weekly. She has been a Roseland community activist and is currently at USF Law School. I want to thank her for her bravery in writing the following and for speaking up on behalf of other Hispanic women and inviting men and women on conscience to support "Jane Doe." It is not easy for victims to speak up, as Magdalena does below. Protecting the true victims of this ongoing assault against women should be our priority, in my opinion.

As she says, Please join for Public Comments on September 10th at 2 pm in the Board of Supervisors Chambers to tell Supervisor Efren Carrillo why he must resign! By coming you can help prevent "the re-occuring fear & terror that follows an event like what occurred on the early hours of July 13."

This was written by my colleague, Magdalena Ridley:

Little attention has been paid to the anonymous real victim of the alleged attempted sexual assault by Supervisor Efren Carrillo ...

[tomcat]

I don't understand why you are "a little surprised" by my statement. I was clearly relating it to the legal system and his presumption of innocence in a court of law. I was not passing judgement on whether he is indeed truly Innocent or guilty of anything, as I do not have all the facts. I do not know the TRUTH. Only he knows what is in his heart.

You say that we can discuss the idea of a person being guilty even if he is acquitted, and I agree... but there hasn't been a trial yet and we do not know what evidence or statements will be presented or what any witnesses saw. Discussion at THIS point about his 'legal' guilt or innocence is simply a rush to judgement without having a legal judgement or knowing ALL of the available facts. Discussion about his REAL innocence or guilt is simply conjecture and opinion based on few facts.

I truly sympathize with the woman who was frightened by a person at her window in the middle of the night and I am looking forward to hearing her full statement when the time is right for her to give it. Trial or not.

I will admit, that the few facts that we DO know look pretty damning... found in his undies and socks, 911 calls, damaged window screen, had been drinking, rehab, his statement...

I can see why some will rush to judgement on those facts (especially if they already didn't like him), but I'm not going to do that. The questions I still have will be answered when he is charged and the evidence is heard. I will then make my decision on asking for his resignation or how I will vote on his Re-call. If he is not charged with any crime, then I will take that into consideration as well.

I do not see this as a politically time sensitive issue in regards to our representation on the Board as some others do, so I am willing to patiently wait for more facts to come out before I make my decision on what action (if any) to take.

Tom

I'm always a little surprised when statements like this are made...One is guilty or innocent immediately. However, ...

[Shepherd]

If you ever wonder why women who have been hurt by men fear speaking up, re-read the following from photolite. Rape is relevant because it is on the continuum of violence toward woman, which seems to have happened in this situation, however mild it might have been. When women are victimized, other women who were victimized often feel hurt again. When they do speak up, as the brave Magdalena Ridley did below, they are ridiculed and dismissed for their "effrontery to insinuate." The victim needs more than "sympathies." She needs action and protection, including from dismissive comments like the following.

I certainly do not feel personally "ashamed," as the following person invites me to feel, seeking to shame us into silence. Something wrong happened around 3:30 a.m. on July 13. We do not know all the details, and probably never will. But we do know that the 5th District Supervisor was involved and caught "with his pants down." He has lost the respect of much of his constituency. He should step down. That would be the compassionate thing to do. The 5th District and the county need a fifth supervisor to represent us, NOW. Mr. Carrillo is very talented, could be rehabilitated over time, and return to run for office.

Whatever yet to be determined degree of victimization this woman did or didn't experience is only compounded by the presumptuousness of equating it with a rape that nobody, until now, has had the effrontery to insinuate. As some have written about Efren's intentions with a certitude of a mind reader, now this woman, who for her own reasons has chosen to keep her head down, must suffer the further indignities of having strangers speak, unbidden, to her motives regarding her silence as well as her psychological state of mind and being.
My sympathies go out to the survivor who may be forgiven her indiscretion having lived through a trauma understandably recalled by the few and incomplete details of this disturbing situation.
The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves for contributing to the further victimization of the woman involved while your clear intent is first and foremost the downfall of Carrillo, deserved or not.

[dominus]

It's been my experience that perpetrators are impervious as to the harm they've caused. There is a wall of denial that is impenetrable that's often in place. This denial generally is presented with a "but" or "however" designed to keep the status quo intact.

[Karen F]

Hello all. My name its Karen Fraser. I am a Sonoma Co resident and wrote the letter Amalia mistakenly identified as Magdelena's. I don't care about taking credit as I believe we are in this together, however, those were my experiences and career credits. Magdelena's experiences are different.

I have created a public invitation on FB for people to SPEAK OUT for the Victim of Efren Carrillo. Comments are at 2, however it looks as though they will cut off speakers whose yellow cards are not submitted before 2. If you want to speak out on Tuesday in the BofS's Chambers, please arrive by 1:30 PM.

I look forward to meeting folks there!

[Shepherd]

Following are the 2 letters in today's PD about the Carrillo Controversy. I must admit that I am more interested in gender politics than electoral politics, though both are important. We live in a sexist society that systematically discriminates against women, in many ways.

I hope that you might consider joining us this coming Tuesday, 2 p.m., at the Board of Supervisors, where Mr. Carrillo's PR team will present their arguments, and the rest of us will present ours. Though the legal issue is certainly important, as Cecilia Huber indicates in the first letter, there are other larger issues at stake. He does need to "dry up," as she says, but there are more important issues at stake, in my opinion. Mr. Carrillo is, indeed, as Cecilia indicates, "the baby."

Carrillo’s future
EDITOR: I was happy to read Sandy Eastoak’s letter (“Apologies accepted,” Aug. 29) as well as other similar letters on behalf of Supervisor Efren Carrillo. A premature guilty verdict is neither right nor fair. I would like to tell Carrillo that whether he chooses to step down, which I hope he does not, or is forced to do it, he needs to dry up, maybe grow up some, regroup and come back. He has a lot to offer as a politician and has been a good representative who seems to care for his constituents. God knows we need more of those. Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water.
CECILIA HUBER, Petaluma

True compassion
EDITOR: Frankly, I’m a little tired, not to mention offended, by all the Efren Carrillo supporters behaving as though those of us who think he should resign are nothing but anti-Carrillo types with no compassion.
I might even turn it around and ask all those supporting his continuing to be a county supervisor how compassionate it is to keep pushing this man to perform in a high pressure and challenging job when he is recovering from what he himself has called a “life-threatening disease.”
Insisting that Carrillo can continue to be a good supervisor in light of the life challenge before him is at best lacking in common sense and, at worst, demonstrates no real compassion at all.
The truly compassionate advice for Carrillo is to get himself out of the limelight and focus on his recovery. The truly compassionate position is to want Carrillo to work harder on saving his life than you would have him work on saving his career.
DENISE SOZA, Monte Rio

[sebastacat]

And I will continue to restate -- a thousand times, if necessary -- that the likelihood that this case will ever see the light of a courtroom past the first few initial hearings is extremely remote. Therefore, I and others will continue to demand transparency in the process so that relevant and pertinent information is not withheld from the people of this county who have a stake in determining the quality and character of the elected officials who occupy the seats on the dais.

Kudos to Shepherd for pointing out the reasons why rape victims are reticent to discuss their experiences. The compassion you have shown the real victim in this matter is admirable, and I'm sure that she very much appreciates it.

And kudos to Karen for clarifying the confusion surrounding her post and for having the courage to share her terrible experience with us. Sebastacat wishes to extend to you a thousand "thank-yous" for continuing to speak out and support the one person who has been most profoundly affected by Efren's July 13th early-morning tryst: the victim.

Let us not lose sight of the fact that she is the person most deserving of our thoughts and prayers.

[photolite]

The woman in question apparently had the composure and levelheadedness to make all the right moves to avoid a far greater violation than that which occurred, even to the extent of facilitating the capture of the perpetrator who is now in the system. Still you assume her silence (thus far) to be rooted in fear, shame, trauma or an inability to speak for herself, all of which may be far from the truth and an injustice to this individual. For a man who touts his "gender politics" I find this a bit chauvinistic.

Further, you introduce Karen Fraser's (mistakenly identified as Magdalena) profound letter as being "ridiculed and dismissed" by me when in fact my words were "My sympathies go out to the survivor (i.e. Karen) who may be forgiven her indiscretion having lived through a trauma understandably recalled by the few and incomplete details of this disturbing situation.", the exact opposite of ridicule and dismissiveness. Having exempted her from my criticism you choose to step behind her and attempt to deflect that which was directed towards you and your supporters to the woman you purport to champion. How noble.

If you ever wonder why women who have been hurt by men fear speaking up, re-read the following from photolite. Rape is relevant because it is on the continuum of violence toward woman, which seems to have happened in this situation, however mild it might have been. When women are victimized, other women who were victimized often feel hurt again. When they do speak up, as the brave Magdalena Ridley did below, they are ridiculed and dismissed for their "effrontery to insinuate." The victim needs more than "sympathies." She needs action and protection, including from dismissive comments like the following.

I certainly do not feel personally "ashamed," as the following person invites me to feel, seeking to shame us into silence. Something wrong happened around 3:30 a.m. on July 13. We do not know all the details, and probably never will. But we do know that the 5th District Supervisor was involved and caught "with his pants down." He has lost the respect of much of his constituency. He should step down. That would be the compassionate thing to do. The 5th District and the county need a fifth supervisor to represent us, NOW. Mr. Carrillo is very talented, could be rehabilitated over time, and return to run for office.

[sebastacat]

"Indiscretion"? You call it an indiscretion?

I call what Karen is doing compassion.

T"My sympathies go out to the survivor (i.e. Karen) who may be forgiven her indiscretion having lived through a trauma understandably recalled by the few and incomplete details of this disturbing situation.", the exact opposite of ridicule and dismissiveness.

[meherc]

Following are the 2 letters in today's PD about the Carrillo Controversy. I must admit that I am more interested in gender politics than electoral politics, though both are important. We live in a sexist society that systematically discriminates against women, in many ways.

I hope that you might consider joining us this coming Tuesday, 2 p.m., at the Board of Supervisors, where Mr. Carrillo's PR team will present their arguments, and the rest of us will present ours. Though the legal issue is certainly important, as Cecilia Huber indicates in the first letter, there are other larger issues at stake. He does need to "dry up," as she says, but there are more important issues at stake, in my opinion. Mr. Carrillo is, indeed, as Cecilia indicates, "the baby."

Carrillo’s future
EDITOR: I was happy to read Sandy Eastoak’s letter (“Apologies accepted,” Aug. 29) as well as other similar letters on behalf of Supervisor Efren Carrillo. A premature guilty verdict is neither right nor fair. I would like to tell Carrillo that whether he chooses to step down, which I hope he does not, or is forced to do it, he needs to dry up, maybe grow up some, regroup and come back. He has a lot to offer as a politician and has been a good representative who seems to care for his constituents. God knows we need more of those. Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water.
CECILIA HUBER, Petaluma

True compassion
EDITOR: Frankly, I’m a little tired, not to mention offended, by all the Efren Carrillo supporters behaving as though those of us who think he should resign are nothing but anti-Carrillo types with no compassion.
I might even turn it around and ask all those supporting his continuing to be a county supervisor how compassionate it is to keep pushing this man to perform in a high pressure and challenging job when he is recovering from what he himself has called a “life-threatening disease.”
Insisting that Carrillo can continue to be a good supervisor in light of the life challenge before him is at best lacking in common sense and, at worst, demonstrates no real compassion at all.
The truly compassionate advice for Carrillo is to get himself out of the limelight and focus on his recovery. The truly compassionate position is to want Carrillo to work harder on saving his life than you would have him work on saving his career.
DENISE SOZA, Monte Rio

My gratitude goes to the people who wrote the letters.

[photolite]

Karen's statement was,

"Since adult victims of sex crimes and domestic violence are awarded the option of “Jane Doe” status in the State of California, she is not speaking publicly for herself. It is up to other women and men in West Sonoma (District 5) and Greater Sonoma County to stand up and speak up for this woman."

The Jane Doe status does not deprive this woman of the right to make a statement as Jane Doe. While I believe compassion is surely involved in Karen's statement it is indiscreet to assume, without her express consent, that the woman desires others to be speaking on her behalf.

"Indiscretion"? You call it an indiscretion?

I call what Karen is doing compassion.

[Thad]

Somebody walking outside at 3 am in their underpants and socks carrying a cell phone is less the MO of a rapist than it is somebody who had a bad combination of intoxicants, willingly or otherwise. I believe Carrillo is contemporary enough to know his cell phone is identifiable to its location. People have been busted by their cell phones location.

But lets get to Victim-hood and the enablers of victims, just for contrast let me give you an example,

As a wee youth hitchhiking from the bus stop in Los Angeles to Redondo Beach, I took a ride with someone who said he was going that way, I was troubled and everyone who was kind to me was a good person, well after pouring out alot of troubling thoughts I find myself in an industrial area with the driver grabbing my leg, a very big person who now tells me, he's going to do it to me. I was startled but in slow motion I fought my way out of the car, as I was running across the street I see a gun come down aiming at me but I got behind a tree and kept running.

The effect of this lifted my spirits, I survived a potentially terrible thing, it was over, and I wasn't as depressed as I was and then life went on.

I think Americans seriously overplays the victim drama. What the root of that is really the interesting question. Why do people get so much mileage over being a victim?

I see people at the drop of a hat want to let tears gush forth at how much of a victim they are, there's some sick drama here.

[Shepherd]

Following are more letters from the PD on the Carrillo Controversy. I hope that many of you will join us today at the Board of Supervisors meeting. The public comment time starts at 2 p.m. For those wanting to speak, we have been advised to arrive by 1:30, get a yellow card from the office, and sign in. I would guess that there will be a full-house, including his paid PR consultants.

One victim
EDITOR: Our homes are our sanctuaries; asleep in our beds we should feel only safety and security as we close our eyes to the trials and tribulations of the day. The woman who awoke to the sounds of someone trying to break into her window in the middle of the night was denied that luxury. She awoke to a fear, a terror that many of us can't even imagine; so scared that she called 911 not once, but twice. There is only one victim in this scenario, and it is not Supervisor Efren Carrillo. How anyone could continue to support him as a public official is beyond my comprehension.
LAURA LITTMAN-LANGENBORG, Santa Rosa

Dean Brittingham
Thank you so much, Laura Langenborg, for putting the emphasis exactly where it belongs. Every woman's worst fear came true that night and thankfully she awoke before additional harm could come her way.
Reply

Why Carrillo should go
EDITOR: Many letters, many opinions about Supervisor Efren Carrillo's current situation. First, let me say we all have our demons, private sides, sometimes dark, especially when light is shed on them. Compassion and some understanding are always good starting points when seeing these sides of others exposed.

Having said that, I think Carrillo should resign, out of selflessness, and say to his supporters, “I need to take care of myself. I don't want my personal failings to distract from what this position means to the county.” If he did this, and took whatever time and intervention was needed and returned to the public, I believe he would return a stronger, more transparent leader, with a new understanding of what people go through.

He shouldn't resign because of a pending trial; he should deal with that on its own. He shouldn't resign because of criticism; he should resign for his health and well-being. He will be stronger for it and will be able to offer, through what no doubt will be continued public service, a greater contribution to everyone.
STEVE MIKSIS, Santa Rosa

[podfish]

I think Americans seriously overplays the victim drama. What the root of that is really the interesting question. Why do people get so much mileage over being a victim?

I see people at the drop of a hat want to let tears gush forth at how much of a victim they are, there's some sick drama here.

all right, I'm willing to swap youthful misadventure stories with you if it comes to that. But I'm uncomfortable imposing any judgement on those who do indeed see themselves as victims. Often they're objectively correct. Whether it's a healthy or helpful reaction for them to have isn't really my place to say - and I think it's not a good place for discussion to go.

[DreadTori]

As someone who worked with crime victims for many years, I'm very uncomfortable with the discussion going the direction Thad seemed to be going too. I have heard people say that no one is really a victim and that it's all an illusion, blah blah blah. I could never tell that to someone who had just lost their child because of a drunk driver.

That being said, people only get stuck in the victim role when they have not been truly heard, their victimization has not been acknowledged, their needs have not been met because whoever harmed them did not take responsibility, they were re-victimized or people minimized their pain and the harm that was done to them.

all right, I'm willing to swap youthful misadventure stories with you if it comes to that. But I'm uncomfortable imposing any judgement on those who do indeed see themselves as victims. Often they're objectively correct. Whether it's a healthy or helpful reaction for them to have isn't really my place to say - and I think it's not a good place for discussion to go.

[tomcat]

So, Did his "PR team" present their arguments? What did they say?

I understand that there were only a dozen people there to ask for his resignation.
That's not very many considering how big the 5th district is, approximately 49,000 registered voters.

Tom

I hope that you might consider joining us this coming Tuesday, 2 p.m., at the Board of Supervisors, where Mr. Carrillo's PR team will present their arguments, and the rest of us will present ours.

[Barry]

So, Did his "PR team" present their arguments? What did they say?

I understand that there were only a dozen people there to ask for his resignation.
That's not very many considering how big the 5th district is, approximately 49,000 registered voters.

I'm told that there was no PR team nor did anybody speak onEfren's behalf. This throws some doubt on the motivation behind the reports of a "paid PR team"

[Karen F]

At yesterday's Board of Supervisor's meeting, 13 spoke in favor of resignation and 10 spoke about other issues unrelated. No one spoke in Carrillo's favor (if you mean in terms of his staying in office), however 3 of the 13 spoke compassionately about him suggesting he focus on his recovery instead of keeping his job (resign for his mental health's sake). Another 20 plus people were there in support of his resignation with most arriving early enough to receive a yellow "resign" sticker. These folks chose not to speak for reasons ranging from fear of public speaking, being an elected officials rep preventing partisanship, and realizing 23 speakers would already take up to 1 hr and 9 min.

Carrillo was the only person that spoke in his favor yesterday and it was in an interview with the PD Tuesday evening.
Unfortunately for the supervisor, in yesterday's interview, he contradicted what he told his fellow supervisors and his constituents on Aug 20. Carrillo had said that he would be able to handle the stress of the job while in early recovery because he was in "an intensive out-patient program at Kaiser Permanente for 8 weeks." Yesterday, he rebutted what the people calling for resignation said when they claimed he was not working enough while going through 5 weeks of detox/rehab and 8 weeks if Kaiser's PHP (Partial Hospitalization Program), by his saying he "was in his office from 8-5, 5 days a week." He cannot be doing both, so he is lying about one.

Honesty with yourself and others is the cornerstone of recovery from addiction and all 12-Step Programs. So far, it's not looking good for Efren Carrillo's recovery path.

[Barry]

Efren was charged with the misdemeanor of "peeking" today. I have started a new thread called "Efren charged with "misdemeanor peeking" in General Community to discuss this. I am closing this thread.